HanuMan-the film

abhinab · 23-10-2005, 11:58 AM

Sorry guys but i didn't like this movie that much.Its is visually, artistically looking good but animation and storytelling and some time clean up and professional approach wise looking worse. I don't know how u guys think about but from my side it is not wht i have expected.It can be made with more grace and more patience rather then releasing a movie in the scence of releasing it. Yes production wise it has to be if budget was going up but technically the didin't did average also. Every frame is jerking. They made a stopmotion out of cell animation. I don't know what was the thought going behind the making of whole movie.But hey guys i don't want to offend any artist but like to tell the director and company that you have done better.Sorry again but we have go a long way if we want to reach to disney level.
Bye....
Abhinab
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LovelyWendie

thomasphoenix · 23-10-2005, 02:53 PM

I havent seen this film ,Just saw clips on the net, However Id like to say a few things,
I think that anyone who tries to do a feature without a two to three year training programme especially in 2d,(specifically for feature animation, since working on outsourced serials cant prepare you for feature work) here is taking a huge risk,
and hats off to them for doing that,
and second disney quality, Im afraid a studio has to be groomed in that quality for at least three years (of training only)plus two years for production,to produce that kind of work,Disney has a heritage of almost 80 years,I dont think we can do this overnight.

After many such attempts will we get there , so I believe even Hanuman is a forward step for our Animation Industry to grow up, and we should see it as such,rather than being overtly critical of the Makers.

If Many more Such Hanumans are made we will one day make the so called elusive Disney quality.

This is strictly my opinion ,not intending to contadict you Abhinab

abhinab · 24-10-2005, 08:05 PM

Hi thomasphoenix,
And i was not looking out for any contradiction rather then some honest look on the whole chapter of 2d which seems to be left out in our country.That i believe to be a nice reply to my whole porch. Again i was talking abt the story telling and a super hero who was just merely projected as it was in the puranas'. Rather then puting the whole story yes with holding the purana's concept they can have done it for the children who likes' saktiman more then the serial ramayana or hanuman. Again i m not demeaning my culture. And yes technicality can be achieved and if we r not then it is not the fault of the artist rather then suprvisor and the department which dealt with the responsibility of putting all thin together both director and production house and even finance person's. Disney quality is not diffcult we will achieve it by commiting such act of making more feature length film. And evaolution is not the effect of few days but of years. Iknow that. Disney had left us 80 years of technique to learn it in less that 2 years other wise we have to struggle another 80 years. We have to learn it from each of there steps rather than making a revolution of another 80 years. I don't know i have to say so much but we r technical people we don't talk we work so pls work more to achieve a quality and standard of our own that might the whole world will find out wht we r capable of.
Byee..........
Abhinab
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Toyota hz engine history

thomasphoenix · 24-10-2005, 10:09 PM

Oh absolutely, I do share a tremendous passion for 2d animation,Just believe its far too difficult to put together 300+ artists to do 2d in very high quality Id rather do a cg production with 100 people.Even though personally I can animate better in 2d than 3d (drawing is anyday direct interaction with paper no comp can compare with that), Its difficult to train guys in 2d.

And Its really difficult to draw well,takes years and years of practise, I dont see art schools in India concentrating that much on drawing,so isnt it tough for animators to
learn animation and drawing all at the same time from the studio they work in?
And I havent found ten Animators ready to grind themselves to learn drawing,(the nine old men used to take drawing lessons well into their sixties)

I was Chief of one of the biggest and most successfull 2d animation production houses in india (in terms of content delivered).

And if you ask me I would not want to head another 2d studio in India ever.

Cg helps me live longer.long live Maya and if Maya crosses with 3ds-max then long live Xsi.

Make a feature quality short film, maybe but not more than three minutes , with my own inbetweens and cleanup.

I would love to see the work of someone so passionate about hand drawn animation,would you post something?

cheers and best wishes

Siju Thomas

thomasphoenix38649.4871527778

Rawkesh · 25-10-2005, 01:04 AM

Hi abhinab,siju.

this is a great topic of discussion....

i have nuthin much to add to wat u guys hav said.i guess it says it all.

we hav enuf talent to match up to disney standars...all we need is the

right attitude and the right frame of mind.

we ave to start belevin n ourselves.....we hav enuf evidences to say we
are creatively enriched....the idols of our gods are juz one of the
finest examples..it is juz the tip of the ice-berg,thrs more dat lies
hidden deep in the vast lands of our country.

i wish all the best to all of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasphoenix

long live Maya and if Maya crosses with 3ds-max then long live Xsi.

BTW siju...i don understand y this bias towards the s/w.

at the end of the day all day matters is the content and richness in
the animation.....y depend on the s/w so heavily.....if i am not rong i
beleived untill now it all depends on the studio and the projs.so y dis
preference.dis is juz my opinion.

since u hav worked hands-on on live projs...tel us y maya or max or xsi
will make ne diff to ne proj.y so much fuss abt particulat sw.

thomasphoenix · 25-10-2005, 01:37 AM

Right attitude, and tons and tons of hard labor ,lol

RE:Sw preferences

People tend to become comfortable with the software they use ,I am very comfortable with maya, I have nuthin against max but wouldnt like maya to change so much that i have to re-learn it,Soft I started out on so its not that much of a prob.Workflows in a software are refined over years and ive just started to have some serious fun with maya, and no one would like to change to another because two software majors merged and they decide that the softwares have to be merged too.

And if i got a client with a max project, I would still do the entire project in maya(the client has to see the final renders thats it),even if i have to re-rig, because it would eventually save time, as the animators here are well versed in maya.And I can direct better in Maya,simply because i know it well.

cheers

abhinab · 25-10-2005, 08:14 PM

Hi thomasphoenix and Rawkesh,
You r right rawkesh and siju i don't undermine you either.But here i'm telling you one story or my journey so far in cg field and wht i learnt and find out from the whole thing.This whole thing i'm telling is only mean how one thing evolve and wht other thing was the result.Here i'm not supporting any software but the passion for the field i love to wokr in again in contrast to 2d,3d, vfx, drawing anything that belong to cg.Here i start it.

In the year 1999 I visited chennai for some of medical work and i heard there is something called animation which interested me in a deep way. Before that i have some drawing work but not that much and even i have completed my pgdca and i was planing to have one software job and that time it was gem of a thing.But i decided to join this field of dreams and before that i did some writing work also some in my own mother tounge and some in english and i received both rave and rewards for that thing. With time i found out that story is necessary for animation cause you can do some script writing also. To enhance my story telling ability i joind part time translation work in chandamama and there i learnt a lot abt story writing and telling. Along with i was searching abt the topic called animation. With each encounter with the professional i got more drip into this field and then finally i heard abt this software called max and softimage. If of my friend whom i knew adviced me to learn softimage but i went to many a training institute and i find out that many of them are teaching max. Out of compulsion i joind petamedia and find out the software to be well controlable and along with that i learn photoshop, flash, and illustrator. But i found myself more inclined towards 2d then 3d but iwas really poor in 2d except some of the matte work thing in photoshop and vector animation in flash. Some how i finished my course and struggleing strats with that bit but after 4 interviews i joined oyster as a max person doing everything even some time working in photoshop and flash. I boss was cool fellow.In the mean time He give me every freedom to learn other software like maya and digital fusion. Yes even i worked in few of the project that was done in maya and df.And i got inclined to 2d again but as compositer and i find one passion for compositing.And my boss adviced me to learn one thing cause atlast i have to get in to one thing and thats the story. But i learnt drawing in other hand i got really sick by 3d and i did a lot of 2d work and this porcess has taught me a lot and now i'm looking to fully transit to the field of compositng. And i'm practicing very hard then also i support a lot of 2d animation cause it is the only thing which can bring the real artist in you and all 3d application also works on many a 2d principle of both of animation and modeling. Animation like creating a walk cycle. First thing u have visualise the whole stuff then u have put it in paper then u are going to animation by keeping all those refernce in your mind, desktop or else drawing sheet. And modelling also you make one reference and u bring it to 3d. 2d is basic as far as i know and this two thing works along side complementing each other. And yes i'm not a cell animator but even i am trying that, i m plaining to buy one scanner and wacom tablel then i might able to so you my work. And flash i have many but now im working on one script and storyboard after completing that i will make that complete animation in flash and deinitely i will show u that. and compositing im catching it hard way but i will come to it around and i will finally make it a career, i have wasted a lot of years but thats the only thing makes me going. And yes in near future that might be after some time i don't know how much it is? I would love to head a cg firm or my own might be and one really good cg school that will concentrate on making good cg people rather then money. And i would love to write scripts,Books,poems and even if i will be able to then direction. This is dream i go to through every night. This is not 2d or 3d but a passion working towards i don't know failure or success and yes i'm also a law graduate. This all i told you to tell you that i m mad abt this field and love to achieve my dream not any software but the art itself. And i want more best wishes of yours and working towards more thing at a time then only one tin.
So guys this isn't me many out there evolving so it takes time but it will make you know your weak points and my country will one day can come with what siju i don't know why but you think it diffcult. Think abt the team you build rather then thinging abt the team u loose. So building is diffcult but not impossible. So as long as you r not going to look into as final quality you will be there always in that draft quality. Teaching 2d is diffcult it demands time and money and even for that i got sollution that i might bring it in future. You need a proper planing in everything rather then beating around bush and making statement that will not do anything in growing up of the whole cg and even u. So let the air low in its direction just put ur boat in the right track.I hope and wish all the best wishes for you siju and rawkes.I hope u understood wht i really want to tell. don't interpret any thing ifu have anything to say just load and fire. You r always welcome.

Bye........
Abhinab
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thomasphoenix · 25-10-2005, 09:05 PM

I thinnk we have shifted on to a philosophical plane here,(And once again I re-assert that a workflow in a software is a very important thing not to be underestimated.So Im not ashamed for my liking of Maya just like im not ashamed for my love for Kohinoor Dartmuth clutch pencil and the rotring tikky 0.5)

Rest what you say,I'll stick to my guns ;

Your take is perfectly valid the way u are going about things .

I just feel if you love Art, then u should draw lots and if u draw lots We would love to see some drawings.Get any old sketches and post them,Im just too curious to see your work.(I can understand you much better if i see your work)Drawings are the communication medium between artists.

Wacom intuos 3 is a good tablet to buy, 6/8 size is about 12k or so grab one,its cool.

Regards

cgBuddy · 26-10-2005, 12:49 AM

wow wowwwwww. u people are intellectuals some how i m feeling out of the place. i entered here just to know the reviews of the movie Hanuman, BUT, oh my God!! i found the whole ramayana of indian animation scenario... cool. I m glad I m here. I dont have so much experience as u guys have but i guess ur expirence will gonna help me some how, just like Indian animation industry is taking help of 80 yrs experience of disney...

Thanx guys

abhinab · 26-10-2005, 07:48 PM

hi siju,
You r right. And i will buy one wacom soon and even i will post some of my work.
Bye.
Abhinababhinab38653.3854282407
________

Rawkesh · 27-10-2005, 12:06 AM

Hi guys,

abhinab thats truly a story of passion and shows how heart can rule over the mind....

for art takes birth in the heart of an artist nd then takes form into
this real world thru his mind. the human mind sees art on a very
different level unlike the mind...not all are viewers of art are
artists....they use their mind to go abt in life generally....

so for an artist to convey his emotions,the right co-ordination between
his heart and mind is vital...altho which prevails, the artist himself
knos

.

abhinab ur journey in this world of art and cg has been really apprciable...more so for ur undying love and passion

.u cud hav been a software guy or a lawyer as u hav mentioned but the home is whr the heart is.i wish u all the best pal.

and comin to the s/w preferences...i don want to say much on it...i
personaly am comfortable with both max and maya(thrs a lot more to be
learn tho,nver-ending)

the last thing that a human mind wants is a change.
siju has made himself clear by sayin dat...he wud be wastin his time
learnin up maya with new work flow...i agree to dat....everyones of us
want to be in our comfort zone lik siju states it...very natural. but i
wud keep that preference to a personal level...suppose i happ to meet a
guy whos good in some other 3d app....then i as an artist shdnt hav
problems tryin to communicate....m not very experienced here as i
speak...but all i kno is i speak frm my heart..and tel wat i really
meant to.i am ready to learn new things along the way...

and finally this thread has made me think abt so many things i had previously over-looked or tot it be very obvious.

lik thr is a quote whcih says, you can take the horse to the water but
u cannot make it drink....so its all upto the individual himself...if
he has willed himself to liv to standards he certainly will!!!!

hope to learn a lot more frm everyone,everyday!!!!

cheers

!!!!!!!

Rawkesh38651.5683101852

thomasphoenix · 27-10-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawkesh

Hi guys,

and comin to the s/w preferences...i don want to say much on it...i
personaly am comfortable with both max and maya(thrs a lot more to be
learn tho,nver-ending)

the last thing that a human mind wants is a change.
siju has made himself clear by sayin dat...he wud be wastin his time
learnin up maya with new work flow...i agree to dat....everyones of us
want to be in our comfort zone lik siju states it...very natural. but i
wud keep that preference to a personal level...suppose i happ to meet a
guy whos good in some other 3d app....then i as an artist shdnt hav
problems tryin to communicate....m not very experienced here as i
speak...but all i kno is i speak frm my heart..and tel wat i really
meant to.i am ready to learn new things along the way...

Rawkesh ,yet again you are making the general sweeping comments and passing judgment,
Even though concepts in 3d software are similar they are far from the same ,
rt down to different shortcuts ,marking menus and different workflows.And you are not stopping even a moment to ponder what I mean by workflow before passing a hasty judgment that I dont like change.And Artists cross software communication on general concepts and preference for specific software has no relation,so dont force an association.

And I strongly believe this thread should be closed now and we should discuss software preferences in another fresh thread if u feel the need ,

thomasphoenix38653.4731944444

Rawkesh · 27-10-2005, 01:49 AM

Hi siju,

i DID understand wat u said...dats y i did say day YOU ARE RIGHT......

thos staements i made were in relation to the MAYA CROSSIN OVER WITH MAX issue.dats the change i am referring to.

wat i meant was if maya was re-designed with max...then u wudnt like that change...

i am in no way forcing a conclusion.....me too wud face probs if i had to start off with a new 3d app altogether.

i respect your experience and deep knowledge in this field...you truly
are an inspiration....i apologise if i hav,in way, said sthin dat not
sound alrit to u.

yeah i do agree that i didnt phrase myslef properly somewhr in there...but dats pleaded to be pardoned!!!

...somewhr down the line it took off course.

trust me siju...no personal harm meant....honestly.....i spoke wat i felt dats all...

thrs a lot to learn frm you...hope you understand my inqusitiveness

.

thnx lot

Rawkesh38651.6436689815

abhinab · 28-10-2005, 07:43 PM

Hi guys,
It is not a battle ground of useless biosed point of view.Leave it siju, and no need to be sorry Rawkesh, u have not said anything wrong. There is nothing to be personal and giving thing the treat u want to is ok that personal.So
close ur mind close ur thought that can't be possible siju. Talk abt software nice take.Ur preferences will never die but that sofware might. As it is all marketing that brings something to top some other thing to down. One artist is not bound to software he/she is limited by his thoughts.If u don't want to listen u can only talk the side u want to and the front person will understand u as a stiff character. And yes conclusion is not the end it is an opinion.Some body wants to tell something u want to avoid. Do that u r the best. Nobody is undermining u. U r taking it out from urself.If i want to think u as a person i will project u as a rude one.But if i will view ur work i will term u as a good or bad artist.That is the difference and don't make hue and cry. Nobody wants to put the bad smell in ur nose. Don't worry abt that its just a discussion on wht u think and u r not proving ur point over here. So end of the chapter move on guys.
Bye........
Abhinab
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZERS

andy_maxman · 28-10-2005, 08:57 PM

whatever.....

but i loved the background score......quite sensible to invest in some good sound...

ttrinnnnnnnnggg

thomasphoenix · 28-10-2005, 09:15 PM

"Biased" is the word you are looking for.

Abhinab Dude with due respect,I think u should think more about your choice of words ,Rawkesh and I have sorted out our miscommunication with Personal Messages, so you are barking up the wrong tree.And please, its you who's passing personal comments,please keep it clean and send personal messages, if you must.
I have tried to be as impersonal as I could be, please read my posts, and read yours.
But there is a limit to it.
Drop your sermonising, I have not mentioned or asked anwhere in this post that you or Anyone else should start to use Maya

,I have just said I prefer it,and I dont believe anyone has the right to tell me I should prefer all softwares equally,give me a break dude.

Its a simple matter I dont know why its so difficult for u to get.And this thread was not about SOFTWARE PREFERENCES it was about Hanuman and not about you as a person which you seem to think it is about,If you want to start one about software preferences,go right ahead start one ,and i'll reply to every question you have,
provided its logical.
And I can understand the question!!

If you want to start one on "Abhinab the artist and his noble aspirations",well' Dude thats your own personal matter,
and I would like no part of that.

And I really would not like to discuss Art with you till u put up your work.

Everyone else seems to be enjoying the proceedings

thomasphoenix38653.4808680556

rawskull · 28-10-2005, 10:19 PM

Guys its very hot in here !

and the post has lost track !

before its to late i am closing this topic

rawrawskull38653.4937731481

andy_maxman · 28-10-2005, 10:20 PM

just in case