Go Back   cgTantra Forums > General > General Discussions
Reply
 
Submit Tools Thread Tools
Old 23-09-2004, 06:07 AM   #1
Aazim Khan
Fresher
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Posts: 26
Rep Power: 0
Aazim Khan is on a distinguished road
Default


Hello everyone.



Before this site gets big, I would like to post this thread. Discussing todays problem in the 3D Industry in India.



Now we all know its a growing industry and and everybody who love the
work created want to do it themselves and want to be a part of this
industry.



From my view, 3D has made a whole new meaning in India and a very wrong
meaning.  the word 3D and 3D Softwares have become a franchise on
its own and is seen as an attraction.  *I am not pointing at
anyone - but many ppl pick up a software and hit the render button with
HDRI or GI and get fancy looking renders and then stamp themselves as
3D Artists and ready for a job.



This trend has become high in India and its going to take this feild as a career in a very wrong direction.



This industry actually NEEDS ARTISTS.   ARTISTS who use 3d
just to present thier art and NOT using 3D to present the fanciness
that the 3d tools can do.



Below is how you are an artist who is then called 3D Artist.



Sculptor/Concepty Artist/ Life Drawing/ Designer  ( ARTIST)

These people above understand structure, form, flow, prespective and
the model that they have in mind as a complete  form. NOW - when
these ppl choose 3D as the medium - they develop outstanding models.



real worldLighters/ Photographers and again painters and above ppl.

When these ppl use 3d, they already know how lighting in real life
works and they can produce realistic reslults in 3d. and to add a
little more to their work we have GI, HDRI, Final Gathering. All these
fancy tools are used on top of the basic lighting fundamentals.



2D Animatiors, Classic animators.

Now there is a bottom line. If you dont know 2D /Classical animation.
There is NO WAY on earth you can become a character animator.



So this is my call to all you aspiring artists who want to become big 3d artists.

Please get to the basics and let the 3d software just be a tool. 
It makes no difference on earth how many softwares you know, or what
fancy tools u know.

You need to have the skills  regardless of sofware.



I hope you understand what my point is here. This is my conribution to impriving the 3D Industry in India.



Please continue on with the topic..



Cheers.








Aazim Khan38252.8178125
Aazim Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2004, 08:48 AM   #2
Abhishek
Admin
 
Abhishek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,372
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 10
Abhishek is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Abhishek Send a message via Yahoo to Abhishek Send a message via Skype™ to Abhishek
Default

Thanx a lot Aazim for your valuable suggestions. I agree with your point. Apart from that, most of the people here are choosing 3d because they think it gets good money and its a glmourous world of media and animation.
But this is just not another career as it happened with Engineering, MBA, Software Engineer in India. Whenever a career gets its way towards saturation, people here tend to look for some other field to rush in and everyone seems to be running that way without thinking and giving the preference to their likings, interest and way of work. It just becomes a way to earn money and survive.
So id like to suggest the new comers to make sure they have a passion of this form of art and a better taste of it. This field requires a lot of patience, hard work, ambition to learn and keep updated all ur life time.
Being 3d artist is much more than pursuing it just like another money earning career.

abhishek38252.9298842593
Abhishek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2004, 09:49 AM   #3
kaulvirus
Frequenter
 
kaulvirus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 11
kaulvirus is on a distinguished road
Default

Yeah,


I totally agree with Aazim. I had a few suggestions of my own. Primarily, I  think Indians  have a very good chance of becoming good character animators...lets see it  from this point : we've been watching bollywood movies for ages now..probably most of us can even predict the story,the camera angles and even facial expressions and body languages whenever we see one......only if we could only express ourselves thru the computer....wouldn't it be awesome?


Abhishek raised a very great point too...we usually think 3D/computers  is more of an "in" thing nowdays but it actually requires more hardwork and we gotta constantly upgrade our skills and knowledge.(besides, getting that first break is the worst thing ever). Again, people keep on asking that annoying question: if maya is better then max....well...you've probably heard it before but its basically the artist that performs the art and not the software. About the next door institute teaching animation packages....well..its nothing more then a money making organization setup by goons and I think that the  probability of your getting a job after graduating is next to nil. 


Also, I would sincerely advise aspiring 3d artists to think beyond product modeling and walkthru animations. Not being personal to anyone but most of the people can make buildings and cars. Instead..I would seriously suggest artists should also concentrate on character animations and in gaming industry as well.


Finally..I hope I didn't piss anybody off......I am not on a senior level so as to lecture people but whatever I've written above has been a personal experience for me and I pray nobody goes thru the same trauma.


   


 

kaulvirus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-09-2004, 09:46 PM   #4
Inxa
Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 199
Rep Power: 11
Inxa is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Inxa Send a message via Yahoo to Inxa
Default

Hey Aazim..nice to see you down here dude......


I agree..man. totally...


What is happening is that now India is getting attention for Graphics and again majorly we charge less and naturally when Rupee stands low to the Dollar this is bout to happen. Thats one, and Being Indians(we have a major fame - we work hard what ever and no matter what), naturally abroad people are ready to pay and then get work done.


Leaving some studios...here majorly all studios prefer rather want work to be on basis of - Quantity and not Quality. That attitude sucks and will never change. This brings in Cheapness word around that spoils everything even the work atmosphere. I have exprienced where was working eariler the senior guys comming and tell me make a Logo based on a big Hollywood logo. Based means COPY. Sucks man. they are stopping Creativty.


Another and Majot thing - Indian Market. Its such that you go and explain a common person of SFX and Fx and all that he will never know. So Animation is a far far away topic. Why are people not paying and putting money in Animation Projects. No body wants to see animation.


A Few people really want animation to hook on. Thats all.


I dont know whats going to happen. I pray it doenst boil up like Engeneering and MBA did ending passouts in Call Centers. .


Thanks Guy,


Inxa


 

Inxa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2004, 10:12 PM   #5
dra_kula
Novice
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
Rep Power: 0
dra_kula is on a distinguished road
Default

inxa! finally someone who has the b@&&s to say it as it is!!!!!!!!!well the indian indutry i run by the MBA' an HR departments!! the artists are last on the priority list o most companies an' as long as this is the case we have no hope in this country....we have examples of countries like korea an' china over takin' us in this field.....if nothin' is done soon,we will never ever be able to play catch up! 


  I agree that the potential market in india is HUGE!!!!!!but until we get outta the mould of just bein' service providers an' think about developin' our own style an' niche'...we do have a lotta material to work with in this country(sadly the experience of seein' pentamedias "pandavas" was very embarassin'!!),just we have to learn to stand on our feet first before we go around beatin' our chests about how huge the potental in India is!!!!!!!

dra_kula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2004, 06:00 AM   #6
Aazim Khan
Fresher
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Posts: 26
Rep Power: 0
Aazim Khan is on a distinguished road
Default

I am happy people are aware of this problem. I think from a very broad view  a few very immediate majot problems i see is.



1) the damned media - making a big news out of little stuff, making
India look like one bag of mouth with ALL talk and no action.

- stuff like india is making the next finding nemo ( wtf>!?!)

- and other hyped news about best 3d feature, the best VFX etc crap crap crap.



2) every tom, dick and harry who knows how to press the render button
already thinks they became masters and are out there looking for a job (no offense meant - all said in the betterment of this industry )



3) And the talented people that we do have, are mis treated by studios
with LOW PAY, MORE WORK, ultimately making a Quantity shop then quality.

in other words when ART becomes business, its the end.





Anyways - hope we can make some difference to this community by
spreading the word and creating an awareness thru media itself.. using
this SITE.



Cheers all.





Aazim Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2004, 04:37 PM   #7
hells angel
Forum Leader

 
hells angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 833
Rep Power: 11
hells angel has disabled reputation

Awards Showcase
Homepage Gallery Showcase Award Homepage Gallery Showcase Award 
Total Awards: 2

Send a message via MSN to hells angel Send a message via Yahoo to hells angel
Default

totally agree with all u guys out there.....cant add much...coz its all been said......


though i do have this little thing to add.....more in the way of personal experience.....


went for an interview to a certain place.... had seen their output before....frankly...very mediocre work......they saw my stuff...said wow and all....asked me if i'd like to join....when the deal was to go down...they said they'd pay me what they pay a fresher...coz i didnt have experience...and freelancing doesnt count....and work really doesnt matter there........asked them to bite me!!


 


well....small example of how pissing off the whole scene has become...where art is not done for arts sake no  more.....and where artists are not given their due share.......when i presented my work to an international company...they said they were willin to gimme what i deserve......now thats professionalism..........its  time we got the non-artists out of this market......no more "i've finished my bcom and doin an animation course coz , scope hai!!(no offense to the real artists).....lets repaint the scene people!!

hells angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 04:23 AM   #8
Abhishek
Admin
 
Abhishek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,372
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 10
Abhishek is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Abhishek Send a message via Yahoo to Abhishek Send a message via Skype™ to Abhishek
Default

Nice points coming up here...


What i found in many of the studios that people who are heading the projects and the artists have either not been through the process in ther entire career or are some Marketing people as mentioned by Dra Kula... and they decide the work flow of the projects here.
It hardly happens that we get sufficient time to study the things first and then go for it. Each n everytime we are told an next to impossible DEADLINE to finish up the things. Stress reamins on quantity. And the manegerial defects are mounted on artists head to get the project done within deadline.
I see a lot of quality work can come out if we guys bit sufficient time to work,  as being n animator, try out different poses, play with different timins and of course getting some good references from the animation movies or from the notes of great animators like Ollie Johnson or Richrad Williams.
But all we have hear is --- " SCENE COMLETE NAHI HUA KYA ABHI TAK????"

Abhishek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 04:30 AM   #9
andy_maxman
Forum Leader
 
andy_maxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bangalore
Posts: 592
Rep Power: 11
andy_maxman has disabled reputation
Default

there has been endless discussion on how it all works here. why start the forum in a negative way at all?! it makes me sick inside.


personally i would have never replied to this thread. but its just a request. let's call it a day on such topics and let your fellow mate do his work while we do ours and share our knowledge more than anguish and frustrations.


 

andy_maxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 05:07 AM   #10
Abhishek
Admin
 
Abhishek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 2,372
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 10
Abhishek is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Abhishek Send a message via Yahoo to Abhishek Send a message via Skype™ to Abhishek
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_maxman

there has been endless discussion on how it all
works here. why start the forum in a negative way at all?! it makes me
sick inside.


personally i would have never replied to this thread. but its just a
request. let's call it a day on such topics and let your fellow mate do
his work while we do ours and share our knowledge more than anguish and
frustrations.


 



Agreed - feels sick to me tooo. But feels sicker to work in succha
environment. I think you got really good places to work -  no
offences please but its we who have to come up with some solution
rather than just waiting for things to get better.

Lets talk it out and c the things we can do to help ourselves, our profession and the same for our community.

regards


Abhishek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 05:30 AM   #11
kaulvirus
Frequenter
 
kaulvirus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 11
kaulvirus is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aazim Khan
I am happy people are aware of this problem. I think from a very broad view  a few very immediate majot problems i see is.

2) every tom, dick and harry who knows how to press the render button already thinks they became masters and are out there looking for a job (no offense meant - all said in the betterment of this industry )


Aazim... man....  told you a billion times already pls dont include Harry along with tom and dick....pls...never..... my dad loves to call me "Harry"  (kiddin)



Anyways, Andy....whats going on? Long time no see......eh? btw,you were totally right about the topic but  the reason why Aazim started it in the first place was to guide the "noobs" so that their perception towards the field would change n they wouldn't treat CG as a vehicle to achieve fast bucks....Besides...if we dont pinpoint the problems...how are we gonna solve them then?

kaulvirus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 12:08 PM   #12
Aazim Khan
Fresher
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Vancouver,Canada
Posts: 26
Rep Power: 0
Aazim Khan is on a distinguished road
Default


Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_maxman

there has been endless discussion on how it all
works here. why start the forum in a negative way at all?! it makes me
sick inside.


personally i would have never replied to this thread. but its just a
request. let's call it a day on such topics and let your fellow mate do
his work while we do ours and share our knowledge more than anguish and
frustrations.


 



Agreed - feels sick to me tooo. But feels sicker to work in succha
environment. I think you got really good places to work -  no
offences please but its we who have to come up with some solution
rather than just waiting for things to get better.

Lets talk it out and c the things we can do to help ourselves, our profession and the same for our community.

regards







Andy, Abhishek -   Its not like , I love these discussions -
Its because i have a certain experience with such issues and the indian
industry and this discussion is started as a step towards improving
it.   Running from it is not a solution - but input is needed
here.



The issues that i have pointed out are REAL and are Happening.



I recieieve countless numbers of emails, about topics ranging from:

- I am a student i love 3d, how i make carreer.

- Hi can u tell me whihc school is best  for 3d.

- I even had some really desperate ppl send Resumes to me thinking i am a company?

-  hi i am maya artist ( whatever that means) ... and i want to work in Canada.



and many others.   So i thought why not work from the Bottom - Up and try to create a solution.  



Build up a database of new artists - for the FAQs.

Include some FACTS about the industry and what it takes to get here.

How many years of dedication into your work is needed before you are prepared.

What  kind of  basic education is needed to get started.



There is nothing to get sick of here. In real i am sick of thsi topic
too, but because i care for the improvement of this industry and the
people - i started this discussion.  





CHEERS.


Aazim Khan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 12:10 PM   #13
andy_maxman
Forum Leader
 
andy_maxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bangalore
Posts: 592
Rep Power: 11
andy_maxman has disabled reputation
Default

hi rishi,


i mean no offence to Aazim's thoughts. it's good for noobs, yes.  i remember some good old folk mentioned the indian animation scenario on a popular forum and then it got nasty and finally ended up getting moderated. and i'm afraid the same could happen here as well.


just a small request - think before you post a studios name for either positive or -ve comments. there is a lot which goes into its making.


it is a tough job to manage and run a studio. so lets all just be a little patient and hope for a better tomorrow.


( a thought i want to add - some 4 years ago i started off with motion graphics. my then boss was quite a perfectionist. and when a colleague of mine did not trace a microsoft logo in AI properly, he explained to him the importance of a company logo, the time and money invested on it. -  it might be irrelevant, but i just thought i might share what someone taught me about giving respect to a company )


and i want to mention again - in no ways i intend to offend anyone who has posted earler.

andy_maxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2004, 12:59 PM   #14
andy_maxman
Forum Leader
 
andy_maxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bangalore
Posts: 592
Rep Power: 11
andy_maxman has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_maxman

there has been endless discussion on how it all works here.


QUOTE=abhishek-
I think you got really good places to work -  no offences please but its we who have to come up with some solution rather than just waiting for things to get better.
Lets talk it out and c the things we can do to help ourselves, our profession and the same for our community.
regards


ok mate..i'm game for it all.
i think most studios smell the same.

andy_maxman38258.1069328704
andy_maxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2004, 01:36 AM   #15
Crunk
Weirdo-fyied Tantrick

 
Crunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 560
Rep Power: 11
Crunk is on a distinguished road
Default

okok... i guees everything that everyone is saying here is revolving around...


knowing your basics...being creative.. new ideas... and command over tools (traditional or 3d)...


SIMPLE wasnt it.. yeah we all wish it was that simple... but doing all the above takes almost a lifetime.. one fine you realize you have mastered the above.. sadly you also realise that you are old :P...

Crunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2004, 11:52 AM   #16
Sumant
Fresher
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 38
Rep Power: 0
Sumant is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Sumant Send a message via MSN to Sumant
Default

hi aazim,


cudn't agree with you more


 iam right now training at an institute for film animation.Basically iwas wondering if u cud provide withs such sites which cud provide artuicles on basic animation the principles of animation in detail.This wud help me a lot bcoz imyself want to specialize in character modeling By the way  i was wondering   whether ur thesame guy fromcg club(yahoo group)received urmail regarding ur site thing


Anyways bye for now.hope to stay in touch with ya....

Sumant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2004, 01:00 PM   #17
andy_maxman
Forum Leader
 
andy_maxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bangalore
Posts: 592
Rep Power: 11
andy_maxman has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumant

 iam right now training at an institute for film animation.Basically iwas wondering if u cud provide withs such sites which cud provide artuicles on basic animation the principles of animation in detail.



http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23600 

andy_maxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #18
Nimit.Palrecha
Novice
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 5
Rep Power: 0
Nimit.Palrecha is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Nimit.Palrecha Send a message via Yahoo to Nimit.Palrecha
Default

Well Let New People Speak Here Little Bit And Expand Knowledge

Well in this case what i think is
things are all depend on times
and what audience is loving
think now a days 2d animation had a good grab in it
and 3d aint so good
But still in upcoming years i think 3d gonna take place of many many things
Imagine a 3d bollywood haha lol kidding but somepart true

So 3d and 2d both are cool
students have to decide in which way they want to go

Anyway lol i am done

Happy New Year

Continue :-)
Nimit.Palrecha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
career for 3d in india arunlps Education and Career Guidance 2 20-07-2010 08:18 PM
node problems amitttt Rigging 4 23-06-2010 10:08 AM
Login problems phoenix0101 cgTantra Support & Suggestions 2 15-03-2008 03:16 PM
uv problems Dhani Autodesk Maya 7 31-10-2007 01:50 PM
A career in animation - India krishki cgT News 0 04-05-2005 11:03 AM

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. | 2009 CGTantra | Privacy Policy | All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:25 AM.

Choose Your Color         Facebook              CGTantra Toolbar  Contact Us - cgTantra Home - Archive - Top