Those who can "Do", Those who can't "Teach"

[peekaboo3D]

Read an article on AWN recently. http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=search&sval=joe&article_no=3297&page=3

I think the animation industry has been very unfair to the faculty community. I personally have been a trainer for 11 years now. In my career i have worked in studios but enjoyed training all through my animation career. And finally made a conscious decision to train students in animation. I am with Graphiti School of Animation, and beileve me, I have a team of trainers who have worked in studios but have decided to get into training, not because they can't do, but they enjoy training. And also at our school, professionals from studios come and take sessions on specialisation. What ever commercial value it may have for them, but I am sure they have enjoyed the whole process of training fresh creative minds. I enjoy training. And I am sure many of the faculties out there with institutes have made a choice to do the same.

I want to tell the animation community, that has always looked down upon the faculties is that, wasnt your faculty the one who helped you get into this industry. I think it is unfair to slot the whole faculty community because of few bad experiences of a few students. I know that a few institutes have commercialized the whole animation education system, but that doesn't mean that all Animation Institutes are worthless.

Many good faculties leave training and get into production because they are not respected in the industry as trainers. This way the training industry has to bear the loss of good trainers and the students have to suffer.

We at Graphiti school have made our first step towards breaking this misnomer that "Those who can do, Those who can't teach". We believe that the animation trainer deservers as much respect, position and compensation as an studio professional, if not more.

I call upon one and all from the animation community to think about this and write your views on this.

[d_jnaneswar]

Hey man,

I hear ya.

"Faculty" got a bad name for two reasons, most notably.

1. Bad experiences with bad faculty : The only time i had faculty was when I had my previous batch student as my faculty. He himself didnt know much and so, what i expected was never delivered. This is true of many institutes.

2. people getting into being faculties just because they didnt get anywhere else : You are a brave great soul to love to train. I am of the same breed too, I enjoy seeing others get careers and lives, while making my own. but this is not the rule, but the exception, as far as i know. Faculty that I know of, in smaller institutes atleast, are those who didnt make it into studios. True that they cant help it, they need jobs and all, but that made the whole outlook to go into "He didnt get anywhere and so he ended up a faculty".

But one thing is for sure. As the teacher, so the student. I think the main reason for this is the institutes who dont bother to look into what they should teach. I still see advertizements of people claiming to teach Maya/3dsmax/After Effects/ Flash/ and many more software in 1 year to the same student!! I wonder what that student would learn. What ends up happening is that the student ends up being crappy and wanting know-how and so, cant get into jobs. Parents worried that their kids dont have jobs even after dishing out LAKHS of rupees adds to the woes. The student, not being able to crack into the industry, ends up looking for jobs and eventually gets a job as a faculty in a small institute where they dont need to look at your demoreel. Since he himself doesnt know, his students end up like him.

the only way out of this, i see, is to educate the masses as to what animation really is. I see hundreds of people wasting their hard earned money on phoney institutes which wont help them in the end.

Good thing thats happening now a days, atleast in hyderabad, is that animators are starting training schools. I saw one of them, and their student work and was glad to see that they had light-tables even for 3d guys. They had concept art classes, film appreciation and so on. That was fresh. Their student work was not bad, but for 1 lakh 20 thousand, and 1 year, i thought it was lacking.

neways, hearts there for you faculty guys. The day when institutes advertize "faculty" instead of "software" is the day the "teachers" are valued as they deserve.

Imagine an advertizement saying "These are our faculty! Join and become animators!" rather than "Learn xyz and 15 other software and job guarantee for all students (offers on fee reduction!! hurry!)" kinda ads.

I am right now interested in teaching, but dont want to get into places where they are "software" oriented. I am teaching people on my own, at my own house. i stopped teaching for fee 3 months ago (busy schedules), but i am currently teaching 4 guys for free, and guess what? 2 of them are animators in DQ and coming on sundays to learn.

DJ

[umed]

hii how r u?
ur think is right
hey can we frnds
what is ur name plz?n where u from?

[peekaboo3D]

Quoting Jnaneshwar " Imagine an advertizement saying "These are our faculty! Join and become animators!" rather than "Learn xyz and 15 other software and job guarantee for all students (offers on fee reduction!! hurry!)" kinda ads."

I think somewhere it is also the students who are to be blamed for the institutes selling in this manner. The students fall prey to the long list of softwares that are offered by these institutes, that finally the good ones run out of business. My experience in the training has been quite similar.

The students come asking for 3 things when they come to a place to learn.

1. How many softwares are you teaching?
2. How fast are you teaching them to me?
3. How much discount are you giving me?

Running a good animation course is a costly affair. Believe me I am running one. But many institutes in a need to sustain in business and meet targets, compromise to the demands of the students and start offering many software packages, discounts and thus compromise on the quality. I have lost many students this way. But no regrets! These kind of students probably dont really derserve to be animators.

I think a lot will change when the wannabe animation students start asking more fundamental questions like

1. What are the fundamental concepts/Animation Principles we are going to learn?
2. Is the training production oriented?
3. Am I going to learn performance, acting, drawing, film language, visualisation etc, as a part of my course
4. Who is teaching me? Will i be able to interact with practicing industry professionals
5. Is the courseware that i am going to learn, in par with the current industry trends?
6. Does the institute offer specialisation in animation production areas or does it make you into a generalist.
6. Is there any studio experience i can gain?

Once these questions are put up to Institutes, the Institutes have to gear up to answer these questions.

Finally we live in a world where the buyer dictates the market supply.

So one request for the students out there who want to take up animation training is that:
This is a serious, no time pass. Get all your info right before even checking out a Institute. Do research on animation production on the internet, ask friends, people from the industry and then ask the right questions when you go to a institute.

Umed - My name is Adesh. I am an Animation Faculty and Manager for training at Graphiti School of Animation, a unit of Graphiti Studios.

[kamal3d]

Mr. Adesh sir.. i really agree with what u said. But I am a student of a very reputed instt. and i'm jz descibing one of my experiences in the class.. I once asked a very fundamental question to my instructor which was cleverly dismissed saying that, "this place is like school of animation.. and the question pertains to professional know-how/specialization.. You dont specialize in school, u just learn the basics there and then go for specialization" !! if one gets such an answer from a faculty member of India's most famous animation instt when one has somehow managed to pay Rs 1.5 lakh+ as fee for a specialization course!!! What else is he going to do except generalising negativity..
I like training people too.. and would like to do that even when I am a professional animator and would definitely make a small difference on this miserable scene, but commercialisation of a training system has some drawbacks that we need to weed out of the system..
Moreover, anyone who teaches and later wants to pursue a career in some animation studio, the most common reply he would get is "We consider teaching experience as NULL"; if the industry considers that those who teach can't fit in the production teams, then we really need to be a part of the vital statistics and get them on the right track - easier said than done!

[Digitaldruid]

having faculty with bad 3d skills or communication skills is undesirable. but what i despise is students lashing out straight at the instructors face which i feel is very bad for instructor morale. also another thing i noticed is students behave cocky if they are not spoon fed every step of they way

[peekaboo3D]

Kamal3D - I know how it feels being given very vague answers about some topics while teaching. I think the trainers should acknowledge the fact that the students do not expect them to know everything. So if the trainer does not know something, accept it, and the student will respect the trainer. but do not give wrong information. Instead encourage the student to go out and find information.

I read this somewhere - how true it is.

"The bad teacher - avoids"
"The good teacher - teaches"
"The best teacher - Inspires"

As for the Industry not acknowledging the training experience, I think it will change soon. Probably this is the first step. I personally feel that the trainers have to know much more than the prouduction guys becuase they have to stand in front of students and teach, especially the fundamentals.

Unfortunately, as jnaneshwar had put it, many of them become trainers only as a compromise and wait to get into production. This is where the failure as a trainer happens.

A production guy cannot do what a trainer can do i.e. teach & inspire.

DigitalDruid - Students who are spoon fed actually dont really do much in the industry. They join these courses eihter to something which is in vogue or only for job. There is no passion. And animation is driven by passion. So not to think much about students who demand to be spoon fed.

[kamal3d]

Very true sir. True indeed. I wish we had teachers who are scrutinized for the profession just as much as one is scrutinized for getting into a production studio. Although we do have people who inspire but those who avoid are much more :(

[Nehal]

I think those wishing to be a good Faculty, along with their production experience, should attend the ACI Workshops, which help a lot to understand how to train on a software more efficiently.
I am an Autodesk Certified Instructor. The certification process defined by Autodesk, helped me improve my teaching abilities. I noticed a major change in myself and in my students after that.

@jnaneshwar - I am proud that my school do not sell their courses by giving a huge list of software. The Training Methodology is their USP, and I'm glad for that. Deffinitely, times are changing.

[Jituc]

Nehal - Hi , I have also given AWIC, Alias:Wavefront Instructer Certification in 2001. But my personsal opinion is that end of the day u r experiance & knowledge helps a lot to troubleshoot students query. Faculties should concentrate on fundamentls and concepts rather than trying to teach to many tools. One phenomena I noticed many institutes is that they teach both max and maya, I dont understand why? this is ridiculous......

I m faculty teaching Rigging as a specilisation. I have an experiance of 10yrs in Production & Training.

Adesh - its really great the way u started this thread, why not start a "FORUM OF FACULTY" like "TASI", where we can share our views, training methodolgy, new techniques. Same way, We can encourag experience animation professional to enter in Animation Education Profession and make a REVOLUTION In INDIAN ANIMATION EDUCATION.

Most oF the times, I always heard that studio people said that " PRODUCTION JAMATA NAHI TO LOG FACULTY BAN JATE HAI". But they don`t believe that If there are no good faculty then how will there be good trained professional.

Jai Hind & Happy Independance Day

[Digitaldruid]

i take pride in the quality of education offered at the place where i studied 3d arts. BTW nehal was my excellent instructor and a inspiring friend.

[siddharthbala]

You are absolutely right,peekaboo. And yes,this problem does stem from both the faculty and the students. In the students case,it's a problem of mindset - most still refuse to see this course as one of learning a blend of art and technology than each individually - as a result they tend to treat the whole admission thing in the same way one does with an engineering college.

And as for a lack of respect for teachers,it's not necessarily restricted to only the Animation field.I've seen a lot of it - my mum has been an English teacher for 25 years,and I still see that attitude from both students and their parents,despite the fact that she has been given awards numerous times for excellence. It's sad,and as jnaneshwar put it, those really are the two problems one would face - I know I had face BOTH of them and I personally think it's made a mark on my skills. But the way to remove both those problems,in my opinion,is to have a competent management/administration that listens to the students and considers their opinions. After all,are not students the best judge of a teachers performance as a guide and mentor?

I agree that the students should ask more fundamental questions about the course rather than the "How much?Quantity? and Discount?",but we also have to remember that as a beginning student,not all of us know what to ask as well. Of course,ignorance is a ridiculous excuse,but nevertheless,awareness is required - about the field,how to choose institutes and above all,what to look for in a course. I personally feel the media has botched it by continuously stressing on how it's such a hot field with all those animator requirements without producing sufficient articles about all the above topics. And I personally do not think it's the best schools which need to be listed at all - the quality of the teachers speak for themselves.

Which is why I would strongly disagree about the prediction that the good institutes would die out to the backalley sort. I may be a student,but I've seen a lot of studios come up to my college asking for a few samples of the students work and asking them to send a few students over when the batch had graduated. The industry keeps a close contact with the good schools,and always welcomes those students. A two-bit institute will win no hearts at most studios if the quality is mediocre.

But these are just my thoughts on it. But I would like to say that I admire your decision,and I hope to teach someday as well,pass on what I learn to people willing to listen to me. "Matha,Pitha,Guru,Devam",after all. :)

[peekaboo3D]

I was going through some orkut communities, where students have abused faculties and institutes really bad. Their experience was that the faculties either did not teach them what was relevant or taught them wrong stuff just because they did not know the right stuff ro worst asked the students to teach them. Pathetic!!!!:mad: :mad:

The students pay a lot of money and above all trust the faculties with thier careers.

I would Like to ask a very basic question to these faculties.
"Why do you take up teaching...
1. If you dont know how to do it
2. If you dont enjoy teaching, why do it.
3. Do you have the right to destroy some ones career just for some salary
4. Would you want to get the same treatment if you were a student.
5. Are you doing it becuase you are not getting a job in the studios and that you are not good enough for the studios
6. Because you think teaching is a less strenuous job than a studio

Well if the reasons you have for being a faculty is one of the above, then please do think where you are heading and what are you doing to the students who look up to you.

Teaching animation is a tough job. It is definitely driven by a lot of passion. Every time you stand in a class to teach, you perform to you best. Your knowledge, concepts, information and skill has to much higher than a studio professional to be able to teach, cause you dont know what questions you may have to answer.

Professors and teachers from IIMs and IITs are respected for their teaching. They are not practicing professionals. Their knowledge is what earns them the respect. Teaching is about nuturing talent and giving it enough skill. This is one job where however sucessful the student may become in life, he/she will always call you "Sir" or "Madam" with respect.

So i request all the faculties out there to earn that "respect" out of knowledge, skill and inspiration and "not" out of position/designation.

Next time you are addressed "Sir/Madam" by a student, think about it. "Do you deserve it."

I think we need to start a forum for faculties, where they can share thier views, agonies, research, queries, questions, answers, works, sessions, papers etc..... with all.:) :) :)

let us start one on CGtantra. I request people to come forward to support it. Only then we can make better faculties and inturn better students/professionals and better animation.

[kamal3d]

I was going through some orkut communities, where students have abused faculties and institutes really bad. Their experience was that the faculties either did not teach them what was relevant or taught them wrong stuff just because they did not know the right stuff ro worst asked the students to teach them. Pathetic!!!!:mad: :mad:

The students pay a lot of money and above all trust the faculties with thier careers.

I would Like to ask a very basic question to these faculties.
"Why do you take up teaching...
1. If you dont know how to do it
2. If you dont enjoy teaching, why do it.
3. Do you have the right to destroy some ones career just for some salary
4. Would you want to get the same treatment if you were a student.
5. Are you doing it becuase you are not getting a job in the studios and that you are not good enough for the studios
6. Because you think teaching is a less strenuous job than a studio

Well if the reasons you have for being a faculty is one of the above, then please do think where you are heading and what are you doing to the students who look up to you.

Teaching animation is a tough job. It is definitely driven by a lot of passion. Every time you stand in a class to teach, you perform to you best. Your knowledge, concepts, information and skill has to much higher than a studio professional to be able to teach, cause you dont know what questions you may have to answer.

Professors and teachers from IIMs and IITs are respected for their teaching. They are not practicing professionals. Their knowledge is what earns them the respect. Teaching is about nuturing talent and giving it enough skill. This is one job where however sucessful the student may become in life, he/she will always call you "Sir" or "Madam" with respect.

So i request all the faculties out there to earn that "respect" out of knowledge, skill and inspiration and "not" out of position/designation.

Next time you are addressed "Sir/Madam" by a student, think about it. "Do you deserve it."

I think we need to start a forum for faculties, where they can share thier views, agonies, research, queries, questions, answers, works, sessions, papers etc..... with all.:) :) :)

let us start one on CGtantra. I request people to come forward to support it. Only then we can make better faculties and inturn better students/professionals and better animation.

+1. 100% agreement there. The faculties who really like to teach and
are really willing to spread knowledge will really benefit a great deal
from a forum like that!

The problem, though are the people who call themselves teachers but
don't really deserve to be at the position they are at!

Absolutely correct and logical questions, you have put here, that one
should ask oneself before taking so many young peoples' careers in
his / her hands. But how many who actually do it care to ask those
questions to themselves. They are not worth being called "guru". A
"guru" is a really respectable position.

They dream of commanding the respect that a "guru" _earns_ himself
but fail to understand the responsibility that comes with it!
For instance my faculty, who teaches compositing at the moment. He
is absolutely pathetic. He's always busy with his own businesses and
never answers a single query satisfactorily.. Just showing students
the menus available in the software, is that what you would call teaching
an art, or even a skill for that matter?? And even there, at times, searching
within the menus himself when a question is put forward!!! Thats
hilarious! And NO, it does not have anything to do with a new software
version that might create trouble; its out since quite some time and if
they claim they can teach it, they have no right to say, "the previous
version had this tool here, i don't know where it went in this version OR
they've _probably_ removed it in this version" or some such foo!!!

And that is, in no way, 'making up stories'. The instance i have quoted
above tells raw facts! I do not tag it as truth or falsehood | right or
wrong. I simply say these are raw facts! Thats it. And there's a reason
i am not calling names here. I simply do not have the time for the
consequences that might arise by doing so! And i believe i have made
my point without calling names.

There are some people teaching, who are really good humans but
simply not good at their work! Normal feedback systems do not
work in such cases and students do not feel like complaining
against such a teacher!

Good faculties that we really respected never stay for long in
our institute!! :confused:
Now don't ask me which institute.. (i rather feel like calling it a shop!)

Well, the questions put forth by peekaboo3d do their job for honest
people who missed giving it a thought. They will consider. Unfortunately,
such honest people might be possibly in very short supply!

Any suggestions for those who would not consider the self questioning?

Cheers!

[dropdeadfriend]

agreed peekaboo3D

"Why do you take up teaching...
1. If you dont know how to do it
2. If you dont enjoy teaching, why do it.
3. Do you have the right to destroy some ones career just for some salary
4. Would you want to get the same treatment if you were a student.
5. Are you doing it becuase you are not getting a job in the studios and that you are not good enough for the studios
6. Because you think teaching is a less strenuous job than a studio

although i like teaching i have to restrict myself working in studios. im worried of facing same problems like low salary / disrespect and other reasons. i rather fulfill my hobby teaching out freshers working with me :)
still im confused which way to head. :( :( :(
nice to read ur column.

[dynafx]

lots been shared already. I'll definitely take part in this thread with my views. i personally believe, this thread should be kept out of the marketing point of view of faculties working in particular institues. i'd suggest dont pull any institutes names(just to avoid moderation), rather lets discuss the issues & raise the quality of TEACHING & address the issue of faculties. teaching is an art, i've experienced it for a long time.

[siddharthbala]

lots been shared already. I'll definitely take part in this thread with my views. i personally believe, this thread should be kept out of the marketing point of view of faculties working in particular institues. i'd suggest dont pull any institutes names(just to avoid moderation), rather lets discuss the issues & raise the quality of TEACHING & address the issue of faculties. teaching is an art, i've experienced it for a long time.

I agree,dynafx - let's not start a mudslinging contest over the issue. I think it's necessary to find out what makes a "good" teacher good. It's pretty obvious that this field is such that the normal convention of teaching doesn't apply completely. I personally think a teacher should be all a conventional teacher should be - patient with students and their questions, capable of teaching concepts clearly and inspiring people - and much more.

[Digitaldruid]

I was going through some orkut communities, where students have abused faculties and institutes really bad. Their experience was that the faculties either did not teach them what was relevant or taught them wrong stuff just because they did not know the right stuff ro worst asked the students to teach them. Pathetic!!!!:mad: :mad:

The students pay a lot of money and above all trust the faculties with thier careers.

I would Like to ask a very basic question to these faculties.
"Why do you take up teaching...
1. If you dont know how to do it
2. If you dont enjoy teaching, why do it.
3. Do you have the right to destroy some ones career just for some salary
4. Would you want to get the same treatment if you were a student.
5. Are you doing it becuase you are not getting a job in the studios and that you are not good enough for the studios
6. Because you think teaching is a less strenuous job than a studio

Well if the reasons you have for being a faculty is one of the above, then please do think where you are heading and what are you doing to the students who look up to you.

Teaching animation is a tough job. It is definitely driven by a lot of passion. Every time you stand in a class to teach, you perform to you best. Your knowledge, concepts, information and skill has to much higher than a studio professional to be able to teach, cause you dont know what questions you may have to answer.

Professors and teachers from IIMs and IITs are respected for their teaching. They are not practicing professionals. Their knowledge is what earns them the respect. Teaching is about nuturing talent and giving it enough skill. This is one job where however sucessful the student may become in life, he/she will always call you "Sir" or "Madam" with respect.

So i request all the faculties out there to earn that "respect" out of knowledge, skill and inspiration and "not" out of position/designation.

Next time you are addressed "Sir/Madam" by a student, think about it. "Do you deserve it."

I think we need to start a forum for faculties, where they can share thier views, agonies, research, queries, questions, answers, works, sessions, papers etc..... with all.:) :) :)

let us start one on CGtantra. I request people to come forward to support it. Only then we can make better faculties and inturn better students/professionals and better animation.

lets be quite frank. in the indian scenario most animation schools teach you to
the tools and techniques but not art. in such cases fuming at the instructors will do no good. its up to the the students to do supplement their classwork with additional self study. trust me after being in 2 animation academies "1 for the basic course and the other for specialization" i have noticed not many students bother doing homework or practice work.

coming to the next point students have pretty much no authority to be offensive towards their teachers. if they are not satisfied with the quality of instruction they must take up the matter with the management or take a refund and ship out. endlessly moaning and badmouthing instructors is not going to get you anywhere. a person might have as well invested that time in
some self studies.

as a thumb of rule its wise to invest 4-5 hrs in selfstudy and research for every 2-3 hours of classroom lectures. visit a art gallery or practice sketching. 3 years ago when i decided to take a plunge into this field i could not draw a dammn stick and frankly i'am still not that good at sketching.
but with quite a bit of practice over the years i have been able to put my ideas into paper before going digital. i am able to crystallize my thoughts and get to work instead of just opening a 3d app and staring at those very pretty grid lines.

[peekaboo3D]

:) :) :) :D :D :clap: :clap:

[peekaboo3D]

I agree with DynaFX on the part of misusing this topic for personal agenda. I am also glad that this topic is drawing various views and the interest tantricks have shown to address this issue is commendable.

The reason to start this topic was not to critisize the student or the faculty. It was only a wake up call to do something about this situation. I personally think that both are equally responsible for the state in which the animation education is in today. I would not blame the management for this, for one reason that they do not know what is right or wrong. They are here to do business. They dont understand technology or Art. I would not blame them. It is the faculties who should tell them what is the right way to teach and stand up to it. The students should be responsible to get the training they have paid for or protest. the students should choose the course/institute rather than go for jazzy offers and discounts.

I feel that a lot has been said about agreements and disagreements on this topic, and i think we all are in consencus with the fact that, the animation education is just not upto the mark, may it be the faculty, student or management.

I think the next step to this should be find solutions for this rather than discuss more on this.
We need to answer these questions:
1. How do we help the faculties who find they are not teaching the right way
2. How do we educate the students, the right way to learn and get the most out of the training
3. Is a special forum for faculties needed where the faculties can get what ever help they require
4. How can we get more studio professionals to come forward and teach.
5. How can we get the management of institues to come about understanding the apathy of the student & faculty

Let put together some thoughts on this. Please do come with ideas on the same. Also lets invite more members to participate in this discussion so as to get more ideas on the same
:) :)
Chao

Peekaboo3D

We only think when we are confronted with PROBLEMS:rolleyes:

[Jituc]

"I would not blame the management for this, for one reason that they do not know what is right or wrong. They are here to do business. They dont understand technology or Art. I would not blame them. It is the faculties who should tell them what is the right way to teach and stand up to it. The students should be responsible to get the training they have paid for or protest. the students should choose the course/institute rather than go for jazzy offers and discounts."

I don't agree with this statement Peekaboo3D....:(

As a student I am Lay person who doesn't know anything abt the animation course. How do I know about the particular course is designed? End of the day management only design the courses. And before designing the courses management has to study the industry and they have to design the industry oriented courses.

And how can you blame the faculties...... b'coz the management has designed the courses and faculties just deliver that. If a faculty try to protest, then the management will tell BYE to him. And it doesn't make differance to management they find the other faculty.

And the last, management has to do business so they give jazzy discount to get student b'coz they are not confident abt the courses and the students look at the discount to get course in low fees.

But one thing is sure, we all have to get really serious abt animation training and how to improve it. And its really time to start a share all views, discussion, doubts. LET'S BE TOGETHER TO IMPROVE ANIMATION TRAINING IN INDIA........ BE A GREAT INDIAN .

[karyat]

Wow!!! I missed out on this great discussion and I feel I am missing out on all the excitement that’s happening in the Animation Industry in India. I think all the main points have been covered by almost everyone on this forum. So there’s nothing left to say. But here’s my 2 cents worth….

I have been teaching Animation in the United States for 8 years now and before that I was working in Mumbai in some studios (there were very few studios back then in 1995-1996) and I also used to teach at two Institutes in Mumbai. I don’t want to name them but these people used to hire just about anyone to teach. Even someone who just did a course for one month could join as an Instructor. It was quite pathetic. It was really a bad scene. But now when I keep reading about all these Animation Institutes that have started over the years I sometimes wonder if the level of teaching has changed. I am sure it has as it’s evident from the good work on the CG Tantra forums.

I think teaching is not everyone’s cup of tea. In my opinion it’s an extremely challenging position especially in an industry like ours where software’s keep coming up with new versions all the time and new software’s have evolved like crazy. So one has to be updated everyday. I have had some of my friends who are mostly IT people tell me oh you just teach so it’s the same once you do it for one semester…no that’s not true I bust my ass off even on weekends learning new stuff all the time but I can totally see what some people are pointing out over here…the teacher is someone you have to look up to as your Guru with knowledge and when the teacher does not know enough or is doing the job just for money or just because he/she couldn’t really do professional work…then that sucks and such people should be not be teaching.

On the other hand I have personally known some people who have worked in the industry for years but when it comes to teaching …they can’t teach. One more thing I have seen in today’s world…… I am not sure if it’s the same in India but some students often expect everything to be given to them and have no respect for the teacher….the general attitude I see in some students is that….. I paid for this so I should get a job…..students have to take equal responsibility for their education.

Someone mentioned about certification. Well I am an Autodesk Certified Instructor myself. It did help me a lot to get a critique on my teaching style for sure but just like someone else mentioned it’s also how much you know finally. So I guess they both go together.

I just totally ignore people who say if you can’t Do you Teach….personally I think in most areas unless you are a generalist you will be doing only one or two things in the industry for a long time. So who’s got more knowledge??? I am sure most of us over here teach more than one aspect of 3D or 2D. So people don’t understand about the amount of stuff we gotta learn and be good at it. I have had students in some real big studios in Hollywood and around the US who still keep in touch with questions as most of them are specialists. Above all like someone said if there aren’t good teachers then what kind of artists will this industry get???


It was really nice to read the entire topic on this thread. I totally like some ideas about having a discussion thread or some web meeting about discussing teaching styles etc…

I am coming to Mumbai in December after 5yrs now. I am really excited to visit some studios in Mumbai to check out the current Animation scenario. I have some friends working at Famous, Prime Focus etc.. I really don’t know any people who are into teaching. It will be really nice to meet some of you guys from this thread if any of you are from Mumbai and discuss about education. I am in Mumbai from Dec 14th through Dec 2nd.

I am so happy to be on a site like CG Tantra and to interact with everyone.

[peekaboo3D]

I have been caught up in a very busy schedule this week. Will come back on this soon. Please keep the comments coming in.

JituC is a good friend of mine and we always have good debates on various topics. So he will always contradict my point of view :) :) :) :) . But it brings out various thoughts

Jitu! I have some thoughts on your comments. will reply to you soon.

keep writing

chao

[peekaboo3D]

I can understand from where jitu is coming when he says that the management is to be blamed and not the faculties. He is a faculty too.:) :)

But i want to ask one basic question. What do the management know about technicalities and artistic aspects involved in animation. is it not upto people like you and me and faculties to advise the management as to what is right and wrong. Or are we not becoming a party to their crime by just blindly doing what they ask us to do.

I think if the faculties take a stand and say that this is how it is to be taught, then i am sure the management and businesses will be forced to do the right thing. The faculties have the power to do that.

Keep animating

chao

[Jituc]

Dear peekaboo3D,

I am agree with you, but will you tell me, How many Animation Training Companies have thier own centre ( Very Few), main branded training companies have all the franchisee centre. And the faculty who are working with franchisee can't give their opinion to the franchisee b'coz they are business oriented and if they give suggestion to Regional / Head Office, they don't care. Even if they care it takes whole lot of time b'coz of Corporate Working style \.

Where I used to work as a faculty in that training company ( its branded company), they don't have respect for Technical people ( Faculty) they more believe in Sales people ( Counsellor) b'coz they brings the business. They belive only on one thing i.e. "SALES" not on "SERVICE".

And the Faculty who are working with Franchisee, who is not paying good remuneration to faculty, How can he take such stand ???????? And if he talk with enquiry & student abt the courses or if he say this is not right syllabus.............

Then you only decide what will be the situation of the faculty...

wiating for your reply.......

[Nihilist]

I agree with Jituc. This whole Franchisee business is acting as a catalyst to the bad teaching styles. I'm a fresh student and this is one of the things I might have to put up with for the rest of my time to be spent in my 'institute': any requests or complaints goes for a toss with only a "this is the way it has been, and this is the way it will be .. The schedule n syllabus are from the corporate Office and it will remain that way, or contact the corporate office".

And the people who I'm supposed to contact? Not the faculty, but the ones called "Counsellors" or "Center Managers" who niether have any clue about the whole point of people like me joining a training centre, nor do they attempt to understand our issues. For all they care, their job is to get more people to join their centres. And the faculty? I dont think they have much of a say even if it is in them to try changing something to better facilitate a student's needs or a student's thirst for knowledge.

From poorly trained faculty, lacking resources, false 'activities'; yea, who on earth would want a dance programs or the like, when v can rather pool in the cash n add more stuff to the library? n even here, all the books gaining entry into the collection are from da "corporate office" n most are mediocre by all standards (read, Max 9 Essesntials, etc .. ) .. again, v have no say. It's a poor state of affairs indeed.

I believe that the Institutes attitude of making hay while the sun shines, is what's making this a disgusting affair. Still, there is hope for da students who are interested in learning as learning materials are aplenty. How i wish the were more people like Peekaboo and Jituc around!

[peekaboo3D]

Nihilist, as a student if you are feeling cheated, then i have my sympathies with you. But learning is a process where 40% of the inputs come from the faculty and 60% of remaining learning happens by the student. But only if the 40% of the faculty is done well, will the student be able to get the remaining 60% percent. Confusing isnt it.

This may be a very crude example, but i am not able to think of a better one now. Sorry to the faculties for this example. I think that by accepting to teach what is not the right thing or just blindly following what the management says, the faculty is nothing more than a contract killer in the hands of criminals. He knows he is committing a crime, but does it just because he is being asked to. Its like "Tell me who to murder and i will. Good or bad is managements lookout." Does this justify the faculty?

I apologize to the faculty community (I am a faculty too) for such a strong example, but i think the matter of education needs a revolutionary change in India. The students have to demand the best.

Also is it not the students who make the choices of insttitutes even if they know it is not the best, just for the sake of saving a few bucks or time convienience or peer pressure.

I know a lot of students who went to institutes where they were given better discounts and easy payment installments, and a now cribbing about the course.

Sorry but students like these have no right to crib!. Its a choice you have made even after being warned about or without getting enough information.
so please before even cribbing about the institute, think about how you made the choice to join the institute.

Chao

[Nihilist]

Nice point there, peekaboo. Makes me feel guilty, .. anyways, guess i'll have to live with it and get the most out of it. :confused:

[Jituc]

Dear peekaboo3D,

ok i m agree that the faculties are contract killer......... u said u r faculty....
if we all are ready to take panga with our management, will you give us the job in your institute?

waiting for your reply.........

[peekaboo3D]

Dear Jituc

I see your point. I think this discussion is now mainly between you and me. No one else seems to want to participate in it. I think students and faculties should come together on this thread to come up with solutions.

One interesting solution which i can think of is a forum for Faculties & students. We can arrange a Faculty and Student meet where these issues should be brought out. Let us get some more support on this. A forum will do really good for the community.

Request CGtantra to provide the faculties a platform where they can voice their concerns.

We need support from faculties and students for this. So please participate.

chao

[netricsa]

This is a very important matter.I am in total agreement with Adesh sir and Jitu sir.

The Point is " How can we Make things work better?"

There is a lack of Councellors for Animation...and so students are unable to get Proper Information About what it actually is and hence look forward about learning 10 softwares at once... even I did that mistake once.. :(
And I think that providing the right information and councelling can make a great quality difference in this field.

If they get right information and councelling, they will put proper question before the institutes and can get along the proper path in right institute and also good faculties ;)

This will also help people look deeper into what exactly animation is all about. :D

[Jituc]

I like to share that Me ( Jitendra) & peekaboo3D ( Adesh), we both are very good friend and working together in a same company. We both had seen indian animation training very closely and we notice that we have to really make some revolution in it.

So we started this thread, but the way you people had given response that is really great.............. But just giving a response on the thread does it going to make any changes...................


What do you think Guys? Shall v come together and start a forum where v can give right councelling & guidence to the people who wants to make animation as a career. Trainer can share thier doubts or discuss & upgrade their knowlege, improve the skills.........

Pls. reply me I am waiting for your response.

[illusion4u]

ya i have to agree with u...our batch had about 5 faculties just to teach maya..its been 2 years and the course is official not over yet...among those faculties there was 1..his name is Dhanashekaran,he was our faculty for not more than 2 and half month...we learn't more from him than anyother faculty..he thought what animation means..he did't get paid properly for a month..he did the best to stay and teach us as much as he can....but he left everything so suddenly..didn't get a chance to talk...heard he's working in mumbai...wherever he is... i have a lot of respect for him

[kamal3d]

Nihilist, as a student if you are feeling cheated, then i have my sympathies with you. But learning is a process where 40% of the inputs come from the faculty and 60% of remaining learning happens by the student. But only if the 40% of the faculty is done well, will the student be able to get the remaining 60% percent. Confusing isnt it.

With kind regards sir, lets say the 40% is A and the 60% is B, how about making all the instructors in CG field to do the A part well..


I apologize to the faculty community (I am a faculty too) for such a strong example, but i think the matter of education needs a revolutionary change in India. The students have to demand the best.

Also is it not the students who make the choices of insttitutes even if they know it is not the best, just for the sake of saving a few bucks or time convienience or peer pressure.

That would be an over-statement. A student only comes to know the facts at least a month after joining that the counselor gave him nothing but falsehood! And what else can be expected of a counselor who's workin for the business tycoon owning the instt...
And, with no offense intended, and with due respect, i think peer pressure would come when you have peers; that makes it - after joining!

I know a lot of students who went to institutes where they were given better discounts and easy payment installments, and a now cribbing about the course.

Cribbing is never a solution. And never will be, but what about those who paid for nearly the most expensive courses at their time of joining?

Sorry but students like these have no right to crib!. Its a choice you have made even after being warned about or without getting enough information.
so please before even cribbing about the institute, think about how you made the choice to join the institute.

Independent counseling seems to be the best solution here for future students. That surely is going to take some time though. And well, no matter what quality of training we get, self learning is inevitable. Unless we work for ourself, there's no way we're going to reach anywhere.

What I disapprove the most is misguiding a person inquiring about a CG course (thanks to the so called counselors - the more students they get in, the more incentives they get.. do hell with anything else.. Why would they care?)

As far as I am concerned, I am through with my course, and its time to roll.. After workin on a couple of projects, I wish it would have been great even if the instructor did just 10% of the part well. Would have saved me a lot of time and humiliation.

And no matter what you do to improve the situation here, my suggestion is, please at least don't ask a new student what it is that s/he is not satisfied with? Knowing what one is going wrong with is one's own responsibility; so a teacher got to know from intelligent questioning where he went wrong. Additionally, since s/he is a teacher, they have to correct the student too. No matter what they answer, otherwise, is only a bait for further cross questioning that s/he can't stand through.

Visiting various institutes and going through a long course myself, one thing thats strikingly apparent is that there are not many true students (by that i mean who really take animation (or any CG specialisation for that matter) as their passion; its just a thing that wil get them a high paying job). Thanks to the institutes flaunting a multi-billion-dollar-industry in their flyers.

Well, its their business on one end, and my art on another. Striking a balance sounds tricky, but it is worth the effort.. :)

If you look at it, its not just with CG, but with every form of education (at least out here in India)

Let's accept our responsibility for our own better future. I guess if the majority of you nods with approval, we're really moving a step ahead towards a better future. If the majority disagrees, i guess, we've got a long long way to go.


Regards

[kamal3d]

I like to share that Me ( Jitendra) & peekaboo3D ( Adesh), we both are very good friend and working together in a same company. We both had seen indian animation training very closely and we notice that we have to really make some revolution in it.

So we started this thread, but the way you people had given response that is really great.............. But just giving a response on the thread does it going to make any changes...................


What do you think Guys? Shall v come together and start a forum where v can give right councelling & guidence to the people who wants to make animation as a career. Trainer can share thier doubts or discuss & upgrade their knowlege, improve the skills.........

Pls. reply me I am waiting for your response.

That is a really really great idea. :) At least it gives us a loose end to catch hold of. Independent counseling seems to be a prospective solution to the problem. Most of the independent career counselors too are unaware of this budding career choice and say only what the various institute flyers have already said.

What a newcomer needs to know is "what he is getting into". That literally applies to every career choice by the way.

[rawskull]

There is a school in France, which churns out group of students every year, they make simple films mostly introducing the Annecy for that current year of their graduation, and when i look at that work whic is so unique, mature and ultra professional execution, presentation, one kind of question which keeps haunting me is " who are the trainers, what do they eat, where do they come from, cause we usually see consistency in work of art but not consistent batch of students who come out year after year with inspiring work,

this story proves the point no matter what profession u are in, if u are the best its impossible for the world to ignore you, maybe we need to work harder and prove these points to ourselves first !

its time we found some inspiration for ourselves !

Raw