Indianism [Archive] - cgTantra Forums

hells angel

20-10-2004, 02:51 AM

A lot of people had commended me on bringing a new perspective on an Indian character like Hanuman.....and after i showed all my research work..many did claim that their perspective on a character they thought they knew so well did change.....
A few days ago on our usual msn conferences we did discuss how indians have to tap into our own immense source of history and mythology for film making rather than having hollywood ripoffs and this is only possible on having our facts straightened on a lot of issues regarding out country and its culture.
this thread isnt a basic history lesson but an attempt to get our facts straight and then lead on from there to think out of the box so that we can shout out to the world with not ripoffs but original Indian content.
Today i start with a little history on how r history books have been misleadin us for all this time...i have abridged the contents of this article to just give u a briefing and to maintain interest...more will follow soon.
Will be puttin some light on Mythology too in this thread.
to begin....we start with the very beginning of Indian history.....The aryans.
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- 
 
According to the Aryan Invasion theory, northern India was invaded and conquered by nomadic, light-skinned RACE of a people called 'ARYANS' who descended from Central Asia (or some unknown land ?) around 1500 BC, and destroyed an earlier and more advanced civilization of the people habitated in the Indus Valley and imposed upon them their culture and language. These Indus Valley people were supposed to be either Dravidian, or AUSTRICS or now--days' Shudra class etc.
The main elements on which the entire structure of AIT has been built are: Arya is a racial group, their invasion, they were nomadic, light-skinned, their original home was outside India, their invasion occurred around 1500 BC, they destroyed an advanced civilization of Indus valley, etc. And what are the evidences AIT advocates present in support of all these wild conjectures: 
<UL>
<LI>Invasion: Mention of Conflicts in Vedic literature, findings of skeletons at the excavated sites of Mohanjodro and Harappa
<LI>Nomadic, Light-skinned: Pure conjecture and misinterpretation of Vedic hymns.
<LI>Non-Aryan/Dravidian Nature of Indus civilization: absence of horse, Shiva worshippers, chariots, Racial differences, etc.
<LI>Date of Invasion, 1500 BC: Arbitrary and speculative, in Mesopotamia and Iraq the presence of the people worshipping Vedic gods around 1700BC, Biblical chronology</LI></UL>
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- ----
So, What are the facts? 
The following facts about an ancient and glorious period of India clearly emerge:
1. The Aryan Invasion and Racial theories, and Aryan-Dravidian conflicts are a 19th century fabrication by some European scholar. They are being exploited even now for political reasons. 2. The hymns of Rigveda had been composed and completed by 3700BC, this can be scientifically proved. 3.The language of the Indus script is related to Sanskrit, the language of Vedas. 4. The Indus valley civilization should be aptly called as Saraswati Vedic civilization, as the new evidences and right interpretation of the archaeological findings indicate. 5. There is now strong evidence that the movement of the ancient Aryan people was from east to west, and this is how the European languages have strong association and origin in the Vedic Sanskrit language. 6. The ending of Indus Valley and the Saraswati civilization was due to the constant floods and drought in the Indus area and the drying up of the Saraswati river. This had caused a massive emigration of the habitants to safer and interior areas of the Indian subcontinent and even towards the west. 7. There was no destruction of the civilization in the Indus valley due to any invasion of any barbaric hordes. 8. The Vedic literature has no mention of any invasion or destruction of a civilization. 9. There is no evidence in any of the literature which indicate any Aryan-Dravidian or North-South divide, they were never culturally hostile to each other. 10. The population living in the Indus valley and surrounding the dried up Saraswati river practiced the Vedic culture and religion.
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- --
-Dr. Dinesh Agarwal
Hope u enjoyed this thread.........i have left out a lot of details for later reference...........u can look forward to more soon:)..if anyone has any comments or more info they'd like to share.....pls do so
note: this thread will be heavily moderated due to the sensitivity of the topic.

nico3d

20-10-2004, 03:29 AM

wow vivek, I?m completely astonished !! <img border="0" src="smileys/smiley32.gif" border="0">
 
 This promises to be a really enriching thread for me that I?m passionate about India, its culture and history. So, I?d love to see more comming

kaulvirus

20-10-2004, 07:59 AM

Vivek, Excellent topic you just started here but I wonder if anyone else would be interested? (considering some would think its lame and a waste of time to talk about our culture) 
Nick, its feels great to see someone from abroad being interested in Indian culture cause sadly most of us Indians fancy becoming westernized nowadays.
 <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Vivek, although whatever you pointed out cannot be called the complete truth (as both the statements previously and the present ones are speculations) but it definitely does put a dent on the old theory about Aryans, the nomads descending from central Asia (some say it was Iran and some claim them to be Russians) and attacking the local Dravidians.
 <o:p></o:p>
Well, I would definitely love to recreate a flowchart of some recent contradictions/history so that it becomes easier for the rest of the gang to post their views:
 <o:p></o:p>
1)      Old theories state that Aryans (name from Arya meaning pure and clean) arrived in north India somewhere from Iran or Russia at around 1500 BC. The Aryans being nomadic in nature forced the local Dravidians southward and some were even made to serve them as servants. : This theory is now being contradicted by many educated people and historians claiming that in practice, there never was any shift of Aryan clan from north towards India and inturn the Dravidians never did move southwards.
 <o:p></o:p>
2)      The cast system is actually believed to have been established by the Aryans. (That?s after 1500 BC). But some experts contradict the statement saying famous war of Mahabharat took place around 7000 years back. Some even contradict that rig Veda was actually completed after 3700 BC and not 1200 BC
 <o:p></o:p>
3)      The ancient logic says that the cradle of civilization was Mesopotamia but now historians claim otherwise. They say that the civilization started somewhere in north west India where the ancient language of ?Sanskrit? originated which later spread to iran, Greece and further west towards Europe.
 <o:p></o:p>
4)      As probably most of us know, approx. all the western languages are supposed to be under Indo-European tree. People from the west claim that the first of the languages evolved in Europe and the mid west and then later on spread towards the east but actually its vice-versa. Sanskrit originated in India and its wings spread towards the west later on. (Proof being some of the Sanskrit words can be found in German language as well). Nearly half of the world's population speaks an Indo-European language as a first language; six of the 10 languages?English, French, German, Italian, Russian and Spanish?belong to this super family. Besides, if we remember, Hitler too adopted the famous Aryan sign ?Swastika? (representing sun and power).
 <o:p></o:p>
Finally, I think our history and culture is so rich and artistic that if somehow we could implement it in our field, it would actually help both the artists and the country.
 <o:p></o:p>
Waiting eagerly for others to post!

hells angel

20-10-2004, 05:15 PM

Thanks Rishi...thanks for the backup......and nick.....knew u wouldnt leave this out<IMG src="smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">
very informative Rishi......gives me more leads on where to elaborate on....
as far as ur earlier post went....
quote:Vivek, although whatever you pointed out cannot be called the complete truth (as both the statements previously and the present ones are speculations) but it definitely does put a dent on the old theory about Aryans, the nomads descending from central Asia (some say it was Iran and some claim them to be Russians) and attacking the local Dravidians
i have come to beleive that this is more than speculation due to the info that i have accumulated......what i have posted above is just a portion of a very long article.....i wont be postin it here.....but can probably send it over to u online sometime......here is an excerpt from the article that backs up my denial of the speculation.....
 ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------
Now let us examine the origin and the conditions in which this historical fraud was concocted.
Max Muller, a renowned Indologist from Germany, is credited with the popularization of the Aryan racial theory in the middle of 19th century. Though later on when Muller's reputation as a Sanskrit scholar was getting damaged, and he was challenged by his peers, since nowhere in the Sanskrit literature, the term Arya denoted a racial people, he recanted and pronounced that Aryan meant only a linguistic family and never applied to a race. But the damage was already done. The German and French political and nationalist groups exploited this racial phenomenon to propagate the supremacy of an assumed Aryan race of white people, which Hitler used to its extreme absurdities for his barbaric crusade to terrorize Jews and other societies. This culminated in the holocaust of millions of innocent people. Though now this racial nonsense has mostly been discarded in Europe, but in India it is still being exploited and used to divide and denigrate the Hindu society. Our aim is to expose myth about AIT, and establish the truth of the identity of the pioneers of the Vedic civilization and set the historical events after the Vedic period in proper perspective and in realistic time frame.
 ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------
In 1853, Max Muller introduced the word 'Arya' into the English and European usage as applying to a racial and linguistic group when propounding the Aryan Racial theory. However, in 1888, he himself refuted his own theory and wrote:
" I have declared again and again that if I say Aryas, I mean neither blood nor bones, nor hair, nor skull; I mean simply those who speak an Aryan language... to me an ethnologist who speaks of Aryan race, Aryan blood, Aryan eyes and hair, is as great a sinner as a linguist who speaks of a dolichocephalic dictionary or a brachycephalic grammar." (Max Muller, Biographies of Words and the Home of the Aryas, 1888, pg 120). ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------
It is a known fact that most of the original proponents of AIT were not historians or archaeologists but had missionary and political axe to grind. Max Muller in fact had been paid by the East India Company to further its colonial aims, and others like Lassen and Weber were ardent German nationalists, with hardly any authority or knowledge on India, only motivated by the superiority of German race/nationalism through white Aryan race theory. And as everybody knows this eventually ended up in the most calamitous event of 20th century: the World War II. Even in the early times of the AIT's onward journey of acceptability, there were numerous challengers like C.J.H. Hayes, Boyed C. Shafer and Hans Kohn who made a deep study of the evolution and character of nationalism in Europe. They had exposed the unscientificness of many of the budding social sciences which were utilized in the 19th century to create the myth of Aryan Race Theory.
 ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------
these are further excerpts from the same article.......and theres a lot more in there to prove that the old theory was wrong..and not just a mere speculation.
will be puttin up bits and pieces whenever i can.......and it helps me when i can do so in response to someone elses query and post like above...so guys...back me up so we can change the way this country thinks<IMG src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0">...cya soon.

sriram

03-11-2004, 07:40 PM

Excellent info Vivek,thanks!<IMG src="smileys/smiley32.gif" border="0">
Hey nico3d,arent you from 3DBUzz ? Nice to se you here too! I luv your Japanese Interior!

nico3d

03-11-2004, 11:29 PM

that?s exactly who I am sriram !! <img border="0" src="smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0"> <img border="0" src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">

d_jnaneswar

05-11-2004, 01:18 AM

Great one there Vivek!
I completely agree on most topics, except I add that most of the english translations and explainations  are by max muller...and I soo wish to punch that guy in the nose for trying to twist both Indian history and the ancient concept of God.. 
A good book regarding the richness of Indian culture and the Aryan world view  would be "The vision of Aryan Glory" by Sriman Ekkirala Anantacharya. This was a text book for 6 consecutive years in the Indology department of Oxford and Humberg universities.
my 2 cents..(but ill be back with more...)

hells angel

08-11-2004, 04:21 PM

thanks sriram....my sentiments exactly jnaneswar......not justt muller...but al those other brits and germans too who took advantage of the situation......
and thanks for backin this thread up with more info on the  subject....
i've been kinda tied up with college...but will update this thread when i have the time.....till then.....jai bharat!!<IMG src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">

surekha

24-11-2004, 10:29 AM

No theory was proved 100% about the Time of Indian Civilization -Because all these are JUST theories. 
I strongly believe that, SOME English Historians try to prove that India has a history nothing more than 4,000 years before Christ.  And only with Aryans. 
I had many doubts in this regard. One - The Adam's Bridge (which age was 1,17,000 years back) between Rameswaram and Srilanka. 
Two - Some discoveries in Guajarat Sea shore. The archiologists found some wooden flanks (Corban Dating - The age was Thousands Years Back). Already Dwaraka was found at Gujarat. But, I suspect the Miracles which were told in Bharatha. The Power of ASTRAAS Etc.  The preachings of Lord Krishna about Re-Incarnation and SOUL etc. 
The Geetha is the first of itself in regard of PSYCHOLOGY, SOCIAL SCIENCES, HUMANITIY, EQUALITY etc. Even though I suspect about the Miracles of Krishna, Kavachakundala's of Karna etc., The Geeta is Really GREAT. No Human being never told like this way of life - Future, Past, Presentence. If any body talks like this - it may be with vested interest.(Except Very Very limited people )
MAY BE... No Nation on the world has like this Basics regarding Society, Human living at the time.
IF, Geetha and Miracles of Krishna, Rama were Real, where are all the Fassles were gone? 
No Evidences were found regarding these Pushpaka Vimaana, Sastraas etc.
Finally -  I never believe Aryan Theory Totally. It just some part of Indian History. It has many loop holes. They know the history upto to some time back only. <edited><editID>surekha</editID><editDate>38314.9622916667</editDate></edited>

d_jnaneswar

03-12-2004, 11:44 PM

Hi surekha, 
 
Nice point about fossils..I think we will find more evidence if theres
more archeological surveys as happened in Dwaraka. quite literally, our
anual budget for arch survey is around 22 lack Rs. per year. but with
the sheer size of our country and the number of sites, this is puny....
got to have more independed archealogists and researchers, just like in
US. 
 
now, about the power of astraas etc.. 
 
I used to hold the same theory, until I found people, who, even to this
day.. know astraas and can use them and I practically witnessed one
such incident. 
 
Regarding "leelas" or miracles...I know a great person with such
capablities...a person of recent times. Such people are called
"Mahatma" and "Tatvadarsi" in Geeta.. Only after that, I understood
that such things are not impossible.. only that many of us are not
aware.. My master resurrected a little pup, just like that... You
should see to believe.. And, dont take my word for it.. It will make me
sound like a stupid old superstitious person, but does not authenticate
the incident.. There is a good number of people I know who are these
Mahatmas.(not the selfstyled gurus you see in the market tho...) and
anyone can meet them and see them in action. The most Full personality
in recent times being Sri Shirdi Sai Baba of Shirdi(who left his abode
in 1918 tho.)... 
 
hmmmm.... am I sounding like a superstitious believer??? Yup, it seems
I am... but take my word for it.. I dont believe until I understand.. 
 
will be back with more good stuff about our histories with authentic sitings afrom Vedas next time.. 
 
chao.

hells angel

05-12-2004, 12:57 AM

its really nice to see this interest in our culture which will after
all stem the growth of our creativity and imagination on the same
lines... 
thanks surekha and jyaneswar for the support 
 
well surekha....unfortunately..due to the variations of culture that
our country has seen..a lot has been lost...especially do the massive
variations of not just culture but also relligion in our country..which
led to a lot of information being completely eliminated by so called
"intellectuals"......the purity of what was once there has been
completely lost...what we see as important now....was considered
useless then... 
therefore now we are stuck with plain theories on everything....what is
to be believed is upto us now as to how far we find the data
convincing...and not listen to those who "think" they know our culture
better than us<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> 
 
jyaneswar..u may be superstitious...thats not for us to decide if its
good or bad....atleast it shows that ur mind is open to things that go
beyond intellect.....and that is very valuable when we delve into the
mysticm of what we call the history of our country.....cos frankly..as
far as i've seen and read...our country's culture and history do tend
to defy the boundaries of science at times...but this doesnt make it
any less unimaginable...cos such is the strength of our past...... 
 
keep puttin up info like this guys...the more detailed and well backed info we have..the better....i'll be puttin up more stuff.

hells angel

05-12-2004, 01:02 AM

For all those who havent heard much on the Dwaraka findings...here are
some excerpts from the "introduction" of an article of dwaraka......u
can find more info on the net....i didnt wanna put in much detail here
cos its kinda big anyways.....an introduction of the author is given at
the end. 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ 
The first clear historical record is dated 574 A.D. and occurs in the
Palitana Plates of Samanta Simhaditya. This inscription refers to
Dwaraka as the capital of the western coast of Saurashtra and still
more important, states that Sri Krishna lived here. The establishment
of one of the four of his pithas at Dwaraka by Sankaracharya attests to
the great religious sanctity the place must have attained by the eighth
century A.D. 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ 
Dr. S R Rao has written: "The discovery of the legendary city of
Dwaraka which is said to have been founded by Sri Krishna, is an
important landmark in the history of India. It has set to rest the
doubts expressed by historians about the historicity of Mahabharata and
the very existence of Dwaraka city. It has greatly narrowed the gap in
Indian history by establishing the continuity of the Indian
civilization from the Vedic Age to the present day." 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ 
Excavations done by Dr. S. R. Rao at Dwaraka prove that the
descriptions as found in these texts are not to be discarded as
fanciful but are to be treated as based on actualities as seen by their
authors. The architecture of the old Dwaraka of Shri Krishna is
majestic and wonderful. The great poet Premanand has in his "Sudama
Charit" described its splendid beauty and majesty. Dwaraka is mentioned
as Golden City in Shrimad Bhagvad Gita, Skand Purana, Vishnu Purana and
also in Harivansha and Mahabharat. 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ - 
Dwaraka on mainland which was one of the busiest ports of the
Mahabharata Period met a sudden end due to the fury of the sea. After
the Mahabharata War Krishna lived for 36 years at Dwaraka. At the end,
the Vrshnis, Bhojas and Satvatas destroyed themselves in a fratricidal
feud at Prabhasa but Krishna did not interfere to save them. The
portends of destruction seen by Sri Krishna who advised immediate
evacuation of Dwarakaare stated in Bhagavata Purana. Dwaraka abandoned
by Hari (Krishna) was swallowed by the sea. The submergence took place
immediately after Sri Krishna departed from the world 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ - 
The importance of the discovery of Dwaraka lies not merely in providing
archaeological evidence needed for corroborating the traditional
account of the submergence of Dwaraka but also indirectly fixing the
date of the Mahabharata which is a landmark in Indian history. The
Thermoluminiscence date of the pottery from Bet Dwaraka which is also
connected with the Krishna legend is 3520 years Before Present.
Identical pottery is found in the submerged city of Dwaraka.  Thus
the results have proved that the account in Mahabharata as to the
existence of a beautiful capital city of Dwaraka of Sri Krishna was not
a mere figment of imagination but it did exist. 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ - 
The Author 
A pioneer in this field is Dr S R Rao, formerly of the Archaeological
Survey of India (ASI) and now with the National Institute of
Oceanography in Goa. With all the existing limitations, he has done
considerable work in the Bet Dwaraka region, where he found an entire
submerged city, with rubble and masonry structures, several shell and
pottery items and seals. The Mahabharata and Harivamsha describe
Krishna?s capital Dwaraka and how it was submerged by the sea in great
detail, a description that coincides in many ways with what the divers
found. Unfortunately, the doubting Thomases of our historical world, a
school of Indian historians who regard Indian literature as, myth do
not want to acknowledge this interpretation, in case it gives credence
to the story of Krishna, whose capital was submerged by the sea. It is
ridiculous not to correlate archaeology and literature. Mythology is,
the science of primitive man, his manner of explaining the universe.
Records of natural phenomena and historical events ? invasions,
migrations, etc. ? are stored as myths. If literature and archaeology
had not been correlated, we would never have known the history of
ancient Greece. And how many people are aware of the fact that the only
(ancient) temple for Matsya ? Vishnu's incarnation at the time of the
great flood ? is to be found at Shankhodhara in Bet Dwaraka. 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------

hells angel

05-12-2004, 01:04 AM

as far as surekhas query.....dont know if i can answer it
completely.....but i will be posting excerpts from an article on vedic
warfare and vimanas.....theory again...but to belive or not is our
choice....not anyone elses. 
stay tuned<img src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">

v_suresh

07-12-2004, 12:41 PM

I also I also support to Jnaneswar. In my opinion the things told by him may be REAL. 
But, I suggest to all people that, we should believe any thing only we
experience it. It may be Beyond our knowledge - or within our vision
world. There may be more and more things in this world which, we never
cannot give reasons or explanation. 
These Marxist PRO Historians always try to change the history. They
generally don't agree with indians are great. They do believe that
Aryans came from Middle Asia. They try to limit our history just before
3900 B.C. Even many theories...such as big bang has not material proofs
even today. 
For instance - Some marxist historians told that Vedas and All Upanishads were written in 1500 B.C. 
But, Krishna also mentioned about Vedas and Upanishads in his teachings. So they were written before Kurukshetra War. 
From Rigveda I want to mention a Quotation - I know in Telugu but try to translate in English - 
"Should Welcome all the new Good Ideology, concepts like a Flood from all over." 
 
 
And Krishna told in his Geeta that - I never care about Caste Etc. Some
one who try to reach God JUST performing Yagna, do VIGRAHAARADHANA,
Chanting Mantraas, Giving "Bali" never reach ME. Just Do your duty with
no selfishness. 
But, afterwards these Vedas and Geeta were altered. We can see now a days thousands of ideals of Krishna, rama. Castism etc. 
Some people with vested interested might done this.

hells angel

08-01-2005, 05:14 AM

comin in here after quite a while and good to see some action..... 
well....thought i'd post a little more in here......takin a look at a
different  and not so well known aspect  of our culture..... 
Vedic Warfare: 
i'm puttin up the intro to a very very long article...will be puttin up
more excerpts later when i get time......it explains our various
methods and rules of warfare in ancient times..and our use of complex
weaponry includin the fact that we  were the ones who first used
guns i battle......so stay  tuned.....here it begins..enjoy<img src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0"> 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- 
 
The history of ancient India is largely a history of Hindu culture and
progress. Hindu culture  has a distinct claim to a higher
antiquity than Assyrian schools would claim for Sargon I and as much or
even higher antiquity than Egyptian scholars would claim for the
commencement of the first dynasty of Kings. One aspect of this culture
consists in India's political institutions which were almost modern. Modern warfare has developed on mechanical lines, giving less scope for the qualities of courage and individual leadership.
The value and importance of the army were realized very early in the
history of India, and this led to the maintenance of a permanent
militia to put down dissent within and arrest aggression from without.
This gave rise to the Ksatriya warrior caste, and the ksatram dharmam
came to mean the primary duty of war. To serve the country by
participating in war became the svadharma of this  warrior
community. 
 
 
Hindu military science recognizes two kinds of warfare - the dharmayuddha and the kutayuddha.
Dharmayuddha is war carried on the principles of dharma, meaning here
the Ksatradharma or the law of Kings and Warriors. In other words, it
was a just and righteous war which had the approval of society. On the
other hand, kuttayuddha was unrighteous war. It was a crafty fight
carried on in secret. The Hindu science of warfare values both niti and
saurya i.e. ethical principles and valor. It was therefore realized
that the waging of war without regard to moral standards degraded the
institution into mere animal ferocity. A monarch desirous of dharma vijaya should conform to the code of ethics enjoined upon warriors.
The principles regulating the two kinds of warfare are elaborately
described in the Dharmasutras and Dharmasastras, the epics (Ramayana
and Mahabharata), the Arthasastra treatises of Kautalya, Kamandaka, and
Sukra. Hindu India possessed the classical fourfold force of chariots,
elephants, horsemen, and infantry, collectively known as the
Caturangabala. Students also know that the old game of chess also goes
by the name of Caturanga. From the references to this game in the Rg
Veda and the Atharva Veda and in the Buddhists and Jaina books, it must
have been very popular in ancient India. The Persian term Chatrang and
the Arabic Shatrang are forms of the Sanskrit Caturanga. 
 
According to Sir A. M. Eliot and Heinrich Brunnhofer (a German Indologist) and Gustav Oppert, all of whom have stated that ancient Hindus knew the use of gunpowder. Eliot tells us that the Arabs learnt the manufacture of gunpowder from India,
and that before their Indian connection they had used arrows of naptha.
It is also argued that though Persia possessed saltpetre in abundance,
the original home of gunpowder was India. In the light of the above
remarks we can trace the evolution of fire-arms in the ancient India.
(source: German Indologists: Biographies of Scholars in Indian Studies
writing in German - By Valentine Stache-Rosen. p.92). Terence Duke,
author of The Boddhisattva Warriors: The Origin, Inner Philosophy,
History and Symbolism of the Buddhist Martial Art Within India and
China, martial arts went from India to China. Fighting without weapons was a specialty of the ancient Ksatreya warriors of India.

jake002

10-03-2005, 03:22 AM

this thread isnt a basic history lesson but an attempt to get our facts straight and then lead on from there to think out of the box so that we can shout out to the world with not ripoffs but original Indian content.
 
Amen

suresh

19-03-2005, 11:53 AM

Excellent Article Hells Angle. Many of Indians -Pseudo Secularists
- always try to criticise Indian HIstory (May be Hindu HIstory)
without having any knowledge. 
They should read this first. 
<edited><editID>suresh</editID><editDate>38430.0184027778</editDate></edited>

hells angel

22-04-2005, 03:11 AM

thanks a lot jake and suresh...ur support always means a lot . 
back again with some more material to dish out.....thought i'd make a
slight shift to myths this time rather than history.........heres the
67th chapter in the kishkinda kanda of the ramayana....i picked this
chapter cos this is the first time that hanuman reveals his
extraordinary abilities. 
this is the link to the page 
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga67/kishkindh a_67_prose.htm 
 
a few excerpts.... 
 
*Hanuma, the lineal son of Air-god, is now prancing about as with
a lion prancing around a wide-open den of a mountain. While he is inflating the
face of that clever Hanuma shone forth like a red-hot frying pan and like the
fumeless white-hot Ritual-fire. On bestirring himself from among the monkeys,
and on reverencing the elderly monkeys, Hanuma said this, with a spine-tingling
sensation in his body. 
 
*"Or, shall I pulverise the mountains while fly-jumping on
them, or oh, fly-jumpers, shall I splash out the waters great ocean just by the
speed of my thighs while I fly over it, by which all of its water will trail
after my tail... Or, shall I now let divers flowers of every climbing plant and
tree straggle after me when I fly by the sky... then my flight path will become
like that of Star Swati and its constellate stars twinkling in the sky... 
 
*He who is equal in valour to the Paradisiacal Mahendra, that
highly energetic and grand monkey Hanuma ambled on loftiest and towery crags of
such a mountain. When squeezed by both the arms and hands of that high souled
Hanuma, that lofty mountain trumpeted, as if it is a lion-paw-hit
brutish-elephantine-elephant. 
 
check it out...its worth a read. 
 
anyone lookin for the ramayan can find most of it at 
http://www.valmikiramayan.net 
a few chapters are missin here but the rendition is better than the sacred textxs copy.

andy_maxman

22-04-2005, 01:25 PM

hey hells, 
whats with the mythology and your user name? some sort of irony in there...<img src="smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">

hells angel

23-04-2005, 05:19 AM

hey andy, 
well...mythology has been a passion since childhood...and so has indian history(not post mughal).. 
as for the nick....well its not to be mistaken with the biker gang(i
hadnt heard of them till much after keepin the nick)....i just wanted
to come up with a contradiction of sorts...and irony like u
said.......so this....like a defector from hell......it was quite some
time before i realised i wasnt so original<img src="smileys/smiley36.gif" border="0"> 
 
btw..where r the rest of the gu7ys??..i'm sure there are more in here who can contribute to this cause!!...so post away.<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0">

hells angel

02-05-2005, 01:11 AM

this is turnin into a monologue....... 
anyways...hope this info helps any who keep visiting...after all..this site is about India isnt it!!!<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> 
 
 
another excerpt from the kishkinda kanda of the valmiki ramayana which might be of interest..... 
its valmiki's description of the southern regions of the earth.... 
<a href="http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga41/kishkindha_41_prose.htm" target="_blank">chapter41</a> 
 
an excerpt: 
*There the golden abode of Agastya will be beautiful decorated with
numerous gemstones, and it measures a yojana breadthwise and ten
yojana-s in height.
There is a city named Bhogavati which is an abode of the snakes. It has
broad roads and safeguarded from everywhere, and thus it becomes an
unvanquishable city. Deadly serpents with harrowing fangs and fatal
venom will be protecting it, in which the highly hazardous king of
serpents, namely Vasuki, will be dwelling.
That Bhogavati city is to be searched for Seetha and on coming out of
that city, you have to search even in the fringes surrounding that city
including the intermediate zones from city to its fringes. *

hells angel

07-05-2005, 03:04 AM

a little history meets myth kinda situation: 
Historical evidence to the ramayana as shown at Wikipedia: 
 
---------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- 
 
Though it is believed that Ramayana is just an epic, there are
many who believe that it really happened historically. However,
there is evidence that indicates that the Ramayana might not just
have been a myth. Rama's bridge is represented by a natural
causeway from the south point of India to the north tip of SriLanka nowadays this
caueway has gaps, but it is said that it was originally complete,
but according to temple records it was breached by a violent storm
in 1480 AD. 
 
 
<h3>Sugriva's cave of Hampi</h3>
<h3>Hampi, one of the UNESCO's cultural heritage
site, is home for natural caves. Amongst the ruins of the Vijayanagara empire
is a cave known as sugriva's cave. The cave is marked by coloured
markings, and the attentions of pilgrims. The place holds its
similiarity to the descriptions of 'kishkinda' in Sundarakanda.
Rama is said to have met Hanuman here. The place is also home for
the famous Hazararama temple (temple of a thousand Ramas).</h3>
---------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------

hells angel

12-05-2005, 01:07 AM

monologue as always... 
anyways....heres what i call diggin for indian content..... 
this short film was aired during anifest i believe...worth a watch......really nice concept. 
Ganapati Bappa Morya!!!:) 
<a href="http://www.pocketmovies.net/detail_316.html" target="_blank" target="_blank">Ganesh</a> 
 
<img src="http://www.pocketmovies.net/images/movies/ganesha.png" border="0"> 

<edited><editID>hells angel</editID><editDate>38508.6885532407</editDate></edited>

hells angel

06-06-2005, 02:56 AM

Have a look ....thank you dyna for postin this link......just addin
another link on this thread......a must see....really neat
animation...and a good example of how our  history and culture can
be used as inspiration!!<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> 

 

 

<a href="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/" target="_blank" target="_blank">http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/</a> 

 

a few more scenes
from 
the Sitayana

<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/SitaPianoHanuman.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
"Just singin' the
blues and sighin'..."

<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/Coldly.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
"You treat me coldly
each day in the year..."

<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/Scold.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
"You always scold
me..."

<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/Sita3Monkeys.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
"...whenever somebody
is near, dear"

<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/SitaTrumpetSpotlight.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
(Musical Interlude)


<img src="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/SitaPix/Finale.jpg" height="480" width="640" border="0"> 
The Grand Finale: "It
must be great fun for you, can't you see what you're doin' to me, 
oh can't you see what you mean to me?"

dolphin

29-06-2005, 02:19 AM

Randomly surfing the web i came across this article. i thought it might interest sum tantrics, so here is a little bit of it--
 
Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis. 
What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries. 
There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old Sanskrit. 
The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men": great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle. 
The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!" This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them dealt chiefly with "gravity control." 
for the whole article, the link,
<A href="http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html" target="_blank">http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html</A>

central

07-08-2005, 11:42 AM

Great thread, iv always felt strongly that if we just stop lookin outward and dip into the huge history we have at our disposal we'll be able to find the inspiration to make any creative piece (be it 2d, 3d, an animated series ....watever). not many other countries can claim to have such an increidble mythology filled with such powerful characters, the possiblities of which are endless.
 i loved the recently animated ramayana series simply because for once i thought we as indians had actually realised a potential that we had left 'un tapped'.
 although the facts of the aryan invasion is important from a historical point of view, i dont think we should let that deviate us from realising wat we have right in front of us in the form of our ancient literary works, even if we never solve the questions that history has left unanswered. tho thats just a personal opinion.
 dolphin nice info about the ufo connection ...
 again great thread and here's to indian-ness !!!

d_jnaneswar

10-08-2005, 12:31 AM

Sorry there hells,
Even tho it looks like a monologue, it actually isnt.. Its kind of a performance. It put lots of thoughts into our minds. Even tho, I  dont reply, I usually read this thread when ever updated and get lost in the logic of things. I just love this discussion. 
I will join in... posting more.. soon..

hells angel

12-08-2005, 06:46 AM

<div v:shape="_x0000_s1026" ="O">







<div style="">




glad to finally see some action in here... 
 
i'll try and add some driagrams and stuff to ur article soon dolphin....got some stuff lyin around... 
 
well..central......thats pretty much the exact point for which i
started this thread....glad u agree...hope to see u in here more
often... 
 
thanks jnaneswar......will try to keep this alive now......hope u give in ur inputs too:) 
 
i've been away from this thread long and havent had the time to compile
anything to put up but i came accross a really interesting powerpoint
presentation and thought i'd put  in a few excerpts in
here......hope u like it:) 
 
 
    -India invented the Number System. Zero  was
invented by Aryabhatta. The place value system, the decimal system was
developed in India in 100 BC. 
 
    -Aryabhatta was the first to explain spherical
shape, size ,diameter, rotation and correct speed of Earth in 499 AD. 
 
    -The World's first university was established in
Takshila in 700 BC. Students from all over the World studied more than
60 subjects. 
 
    -The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century
was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of
education. 
 
    -Sanskrit is considered the mother of all higher
languages. Sanskrit is the most precise, and therefore suitable
language for computer software - a report in Forbes magazine, July 1987. 
 
    -Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known
to humans. Charaka, the father of medicine consolidated Ayurveda 2500
years ago. 
 
    -Today Ayurveda is fast regaining its rightful place in civilization. 
 
    -Christopher Columbus was attracted India's wealth
and was looking for route to India when he discovered the American
continent by mistake. 
 
    -The art of Navigation was born in the river Sindh
6000 years ago. The word ?Navigation? is derived from the Sanskrit word
NAVGATIH. The word navy is also derived from Sanskrit 'Nou'. 
 
    -In Siddhanta Siromani (Bhuvanakosam
6)Bhaskaracharya II described  about gravity of earth about 400
years before Sir Isaac Newton.  He also had some clear notions on
differential calculus, and the Theory of Continued Fraction. 
 
    -Madhavacharya discovered Taylor series of Sine and Cosine function about 250 years before Taylor. 
 
    -Madhavacharya discovered Newton Power series. 
 
    -Madhavacharya discovered Gregory Leibnitz series for the Inverse Tangent about 280 years before Gregory. 
 
    -Madhavacharya discovered Leibnitz power series for pi about 300 years before Leibnitz. 
 
    -Bhaskaracharya calculated the time taken by the
earth to orbit the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart.
Time taken by earth to orbit the sun: (5th century) 365.258756484 days 
 
    -Infinity was well known for ancient Indians.
Bhaskaracharya II in Beejaganitha(stanza-20) has given clear
explanation with examples for infinity 
 
    -Theory of Continued Fraction was discovered by Bhaskaracharya II. 
 
    -Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric progression. Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda. 
 
    -Govindaswamin discovered Newton Gauss Interpolation formula about 1800 years before Newton. 
 
    -Vateswaracharya discovered Newton Gauss Backward Interpolation formula about 1000 years before Newton. 
 
    -Parameswaracharya discovered Lhuiler?s formula about 400 years before Lhuiler. 
 
    -Nilakanta discovered Newton?s Infinite Geometric Progression convergent series. 
 
    -Positive and Negative numbers and their
calculations were explained first by Brahmagupta in his book
Brahmasputa Siddhanta. 
 
    -Aryabhatta  also propounded the Heliocentric
theory of gravitation, thus predating Copernicus by almost one thousand
years. 
 
    -The value of "pi" was first calculated by
Boudhayana, and he explained the concept of what is known as the
Pythagorean Theorem. He discovered this in the 6th century long before
the European mathematicians. This was ?validated? by British scholars
in 1999. 
 
    -Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India.
Quadratic equations were propounded by Sridharacharya in the 11th
century. 
 
    -The largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used
were 106 whereas Hindus used numbers as big as 1053 with specific names
as early as 5000 BC during the Vedic period. Even today, the largest
used number is Tera: 1012. 
 
    -Maharshi Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600
years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted complicated
surgeries like caesareans, cataract, artificial limbs, fractures,
urinary stones and even plastic surgery. 
 
    -Usage of anaesthesia was well known in ancient India. Over 125 surgical equipments were used. 
 
    -Detailed knowledge of anatomy, physiology,
aetiology, embryology, digestion, metabolism, genetics and immunity is
also found in many texts. 
 
    -When many cultures were only nomadic forest
dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in
the Sindhu Valley Civilization. 
 
Food for thought people!! 
</div>

</div>

d_jnaneswar

17-08-2005, 04:06 AM

Great stuff there angel..
Really a lots there.... Got to see references for all those statements to make myself sound authentic when I shout them out loud..
I am digging into the Mahabharata war right now and the Vishnu purana.. Will be posting info...

anjali

28-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Gr8 thread guys, its wonderfull to read about our rich civilisation, history & culture. 
hope, to contribute to the thread.

thomasphoenix

29-09-2005, 02:36 AM

India has suffered great losses in the past which has washed away a
great deal of documentation regarding the advances that were made in
thousands of years and 
the biggest blow to this was the destruction of the Nalanda University
by Invaders.Nalanda had the most equipped library in the ancient
world.and all the books were burnt by the barbarians. 
 
If Nalanda could have survived well things would have been much better
for us,and Nalanda was not the only university to be destroyed. 
 
 
There is a tunnel in Bhavnagar which leads to dwarka(now under sea),
its of course, closed and unusable at present, but it does go under the
sea. 
 
I would also suggest interested people to read Chariots of the gods by
Erick von Denniken.(Interesting he links bermuda , christ and India)
though some of his theories are wierd some other stuff is freaked out
like airplane models from mayan period and detailed drawing of a
spaceship cockpit in a mayan temple. 
 
In short time and people destroy many things and there are not always
fossils to be found.Considering the dinosaurs lived on the earth for a
phenominally longer duration than us almost 60 times longer,and there
is so few fossils found and so few species found. 
 
my two cents 
 
<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> I do not subscribe nor believe in whatever any book says just because it says so nor any article (which is why I used words like suggest and not have to),I was trained not to trust the printed word by a master journalist,But I believe you can read and enjoy all possibilities real or imaginary.Since sometimes the lines between fact and fiction are indeed thin.To really get a subject threadbare, research is needed,unfortunately that will be a full time job,which i doubt many of us can do. 

<edited><editID>thomasphoenix</editID><editDate>38654.0737962963</editDate></edited>

okaland

22-10-2005, 06:05 AM

this is the best discussion i have seen ever,will read all of this
slowly slowly so that i can add.. this is very interesting <img src="smileys/smiley32.gif" border="0">

dolphin

28-10-2005, 11:20 PM

instead of reading 'chariots of the
gods' read it's criticism on the net, that guy even made up sum
imaginary stuff to entice ppl into believing his way of thinking...he
even admitted it...<img style="font-weight: bold;" src="smileys/smiley5.gif" border="0"> 
ppl from southindia believe that they are of dravidian origin and not
aryan. they claim that tamil is an older language than sanskrit. the
claims could be true cuz tamil is a richer language than sanskrit. they
also claim tamil, kannada, telegu (and one other southindian language
which i forgot) have not originated from sanskrit. maybe thats y their
languages are so diff from presumed aryan languages which are of sanskrit
origin. and maybe thats y i cannot make heads or tails of their
languages...<img src="smileys/smiley5.gif" border="0"> 
 
Holy Books Compendium - KJ Bible + Apocrypha + Dead Sea Scrolls + Koran + Book of Mormon + Egyptian Bo.pdf 
try to get this book if u can
from a peer to peer software. its amazing. its not just the holy books
but they are also critisized vehemently. i had fun reading about what
things ppl believe in blindly and on faith without using their
commonsense and brains. it really is amazing.... have fun reading...<img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> 
 
and yaa, no offence to any religious sentiments. i dont even believe in
things which my own faith preaches if it does not appeal to my
commonsense... 
 
it shud be noted that i am not saying
all of which i have written above is true. that is why words like
'presumed' and 'claim'. it is just a point of view which has to be
taken into consideration. 


<edited><editID>dolphin</editID><editDate>38653.6234027778</editDate></edited>

hells angel

29-10-2005, 03:34 AM

Keep it clean guys. 
I had mentioned right at the start of this thread that this will be heavily moderated due to the sensitivity of the subject. 
Every one is free to an opinion and please try and make quotations and
have more specific and indepth material when u post.Hearsay isnt good
enough when a topic like this can lead to large scale effects. 
If u have a difference of opinion or feel the need to flame please stick to PM's for this.

ravindranak

05-11-2005, 09:05 PM

Firstly ...LET THIS POST LIVE ON .
I think this thread is amazing,can't believe i had ignored it for so long... but i don't think i can post anything about it here coz i believe that in order to post in such a topic you should have a thorough knowledge about it and u must believe in it without any exceptions...which i dont .
Moderator , I think this thread should get a forum of its own Like General Discussion...coz there are so many thiungs to talk about in indianism ....we all know india has a very vast history and that it has many religions and languages .and india has so many various perspectives on almost every aspect of the entire universe
Moreover, i think every individual must give his or her own perspective of it in his or her own creative way provided it doesnt hurt anyone else's beliefs.i guess it is possible to find out the truth through art ..and make the world a much better place to live in .
like <A href="http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/" target="_blank">http://www.ninapaley.com/Sitayana/</A> .this one ...which was posted by hellsangel...
i'm really surprised that so many people think this way .....i'm just wondering why Lord Krishna's skin is represented by that particular blue colour and why he plays a flute ....can someone please answer this for me ?? 
Thanks

kippu

12-11-2005, 01:27 AM

so whats everyones point over here?

ravindranak

12-11-2005, 05:52 PM

lol @ kippu

okaland

16-11-2005, 06:53 AM

Ok this is some thing cooool that i came across a while ago ....its about flying vehicles... 
 
do see it <img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> 
 
http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Vimanas.htm

ravindranak

17-11-2005, 02:15 AM

Ok this is some thing cooool that i came across a while ago ....its about flying vehicles... do see it <IMG src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Vimanas.htm 
dint someone post this already ??coz i remember seeing this before

dolphin

19-12-2005, 03:57 AM

Why is this thread dead??? The amount of info available about our history on the net and otherwise is phenomenal. I would recommend this site (<a href="http://www.stephen-knapp.com" target="_blank">http://www.stephen-knapp.com</a>) for some very thought provoking articles and opinions on hinduism. though the author of this site was born in a christian family in a western country he has deep knowledge of hinduism, more than probably most of us here. I strongly recommend you visit his site. He also has very interesting articles on the topic we are discussing here. worth checking out... Flying crafts, nuclear bombs, advanced technological warfare etc etc. looks like we have 'been there done that', a long time ago... P.S also don't forget to check out the very interesting article about who actually built the Taj Mahal. If u think shahjahan, think again....<img src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0"> 

<edited><editID>dolphin</editID><editDate>38705.0958680556</editDate></edited>

dolphin

19-12-2005, 04:59 AM

for reasons unknown to me, the link which i supplied above is not working... however, if u copy and paste the link in the address bar it does work. ok, i have got the link above to work. Reason for edit:  Corrected link. 

<edited><editID>dolphin</editID><editDate>38705.0994907407</editDate></edited>

dolphin

19-12-2005, 01:20 PM

Here is sumthing to support hell's view about the aryan invasion theory. (some Western
scholars are beginning to reject the Aryan invasion or any outside origin for
Hindu civilization. 
              Current archeological
data do not support the existence of an Indo-Aryan or European invasion into
South Asia at any time in the pre- or proto historic periods. Instead, it is
possible to document archeologically a series of cultural changes reflecting
indigenous cultural development from prehistoric to historic periods. The early
Vedic literature describes not a human invasion into the area, but a fundamental
restructuring of indigenous society. The Indo-Aryan invasion as an academic
concept in 18th and 19th century Europe reflected the cultural milieu of the
period. Linguistic data were used to validate the concept that in turn was used
to interpret archeological and anthropological data. 
              In other words, Vedic
literature was interpreted on the assumption that there was an Aryan invasion.
Then archeological evidence was interpreted by the same assumption. And both
interpretations were then used to justify each other. It is nothing but a
tautology, an exercise in circular thinking that only proves that if assuming
something is true, it is found to be true! 
              Another modern Western
scholar, Colin Renfrew, places the Indo-Europeans in Greece as early as 6000 BC.
He also suggests such a possible early date for their entry into India. 
              As far as I can see,
there is nothing in the Hymns of the 'Rig Veda' which demonstrates that the
Vedic-speaking population was intrusive to the area: this comes rather from a
historical assumption of the ?coming? of the Indo-Europeans. 
              When Wheeler speaks of
'the Aryan invasion of the land of the 7 rivers, the Punjab', he has no warranty
at all, so far as I can see. If one checks the dozen references in the 'Rig
Veda' to the 7 rivers, there is nothing in them that to me implies invasion: the
land of the 7 rivers is the land of the 'Rig Veda', the scene of action. Nor is
it implied that the inhabitants of the walled cities (including the Dasyus) were
any more aboriginal than the Aryans themselves. 
              Despite Wheeler's
comments, it is difficult to see what is particularly non-Aryan about the Indus
Valley civilization. Hence Renfrew suggests that the Indus Valley civilization
was in fact Indo-Aryan even prior to the Indus Valley era: 
              This hypothesis that
early Indo-European languages were spoken in North India with Pakistan and on
the Iranian plateau at the 6th millennium BC has the merit of harmonizing
symmetrically with the theory for the origin of the Indo-European languages in
Europe. It also emphasizes the continuity in the Indus Valley and adjacent areas
from the early neolithic through to the floruit of the Indus Valley
civilization. 
              This is not to say that
such scholars appreciate or understand the 'Vedas' - their work leaves much to
be desired in this respect - but that it is clear that the whole edifice built
around the Aryan invasion is beginning to tumble on all sides. In addition, it
does not mean that the 'Rig Veda' dates from the Indus Valley era. The Indus
Valley culture resembles that of the 'Yajur Veda' and they reflect the pre-Indus
period in India when the Saraswati river was more prominent. 
              The acceptance of such
views would create a revolution in our view of history as shattering as that in
science caused by Einstein's theory of relativity. It would make ancient India
perhaps the oldest, largest and most central of ancient cultures. It would mean
that the Vedic literary record - already the largest and oldest of the ancient
world even at a 1500 BC date - would be the record of teachings some centuries
or thousands of years before that. It would mean that the 'Vedas' are our most
authentic record of the ancient world. It would also tend to validate the Vedic
view that the Indo-Europeans and other Aryan peoples were migrants from India,
not that the Indo-Aryans were invaders into India. Moreover, it would affirm the
Hindu tradition that the Dravidians were early offshoots of the Vedic people
through the seer Agastya, and not un-Aryan peoples.......) To read the full article, <a href="http://www.stephen-knapp.com/solid_evidence_debunking_aryan_invasion.htm" target="_blank"> http://www.stephen-knapp.com/solid_evidence_debunking_aryan_ invasion.htm</a>

dolphin

23-12-2005, 11:38 PM

Again something to be proud of:- 1. The number of companies listed on the Bombay Stock Exchange,  at more than
6,000, is second only to NYSE.  
2. Four out of 10 Silicon Valley startups are run by Indians.  
3. With 800 movies per year, India's film industry overshadows Hollywood.  
4. The organized lottery market in India is US$7bn (2% of GDP).  
5. India consumes a fifth of the world's gold output.  
6. Indians account for 45% of H1-B visas issued by the US every year.  
7. Growing at 6%, in 25 years Indian GDP on a PPP basis will be at the same
level the US is at today.  
8. Six Indian ladies have won Miss Universe/Miss World titles over the past 10
years. No other country has won more than twice.  
11. Bank deposits in India roughly equal 50% of its GDP OE again, among the highest in the world.  
12. Indian Railways is the largest railway network in the world under single
management. 
 
 13. India has the third-largest army in the
world, nearly 1.5 million strong.  
14. India is the largest producer and consumer of tea in the world, 
accounting for more than 30% of global production and 25% of consumption.  
15. India is the world's premier centre for diamond cutting and polishing.
Nine out of every 10 stones sold in the world pass through India.  
16. India has the highest number of annual bulk drugs filings (77) with USFDA. 
 
 17. India is home to the largest number of
pharmaceutical plants (61) approved by USFDA outside the US.  
18. India's Hero Honda is the world's largest motorcycle manufacturer, with 2002 production of 1.7m units.  
19. Other than US and Japan, India is the only country to have built a super computer indigenously.  
20. Indian Railways is the largest employer in the world, with a staff of 1.6 million people.  
21. It is the second-largest cement-producing country in the world, producing
more than 110m tonnes.  
22. Of the Fortune 500 companies, 220 outsource their software-related work to India.  
23. There are 8,500 Indian restaurants in the UK, 15% of the country's total dining-out establishments.  
24. India is the largest democracy in the world, with nearly 400m voting in
the last national elections.  
25. India has the second-largest pool of scientists and engineers in the
world.  
26. India has the third-largest investor base in the world.  
27. According to the Gemological Institute of America, up until 1896, India was the only source of diamonds.  
28. The Kumbh Mela festival, held every 12 years in the city of Allahabad,
attracts 25 million people OE more than the population of 185 of the 227
countries in the world. In fact, in 2001, it attracted 27 million people on
the main holy days in January, and 71 million over the course of the 6 weeks
of the whole festival.   
29. The Indian city of Varanasi, also known as Benares, is the oldest, 
continuously inhabited city in the world today.  
30. There are 3.22 million Indians in the US.  
31. Indians are the richest immigrant class in the US, with nearly 200,000
millionaires. From a sample of 2004 US Census based surveys, Asians are
the highest earning subgroup with a median income of $57,518 compared to the
national average of $44,389. 
32. India is ranked the sixth country in the world in terms of satellite
launches.  
33. There are over 70,000 bank branches in India - among the highest in the
world.  
34. The State bank of India is the world?s largest Bank in terms of branches.

wormtongue

11-02-2006, 11:25 AM

hey... this was a very good post and most informative too.. its
interesting to see how the events of history have come a full circle...
 
i for one believe that it wouldve been far more difficult for our
country to have gained independance at the time it did if it wasnt for
hitler and his crazed ideas of world domination and ARYAN race
superiority. and what do you know... it was from max muller and from an
ancient indian time that he got his mad ideas from. <img src="smileys/smiley18.gif" border="0"> 
for better or for worse.... a very interesting circle indeed 
why do i feel it wouldve been difficult for us to gain independance?
because i feel the war weakened britains resources so much that it
wouldve found it hard to control a country of  approx. 40 crore
people... so they decided to walk out. 
maybe im totally wrong .. maybe im not.... <img src="smileys/smiley9.gif" border="0"> 
but would love to read more about our history... its sad that they are
actually still teching the aryan invasion theory to most students in
school. TODAY is the first time ive  come across any information
that all the "history" ive learnt wrong.. 
i would really like to read more on this... ( i haven read the entire
thread  yet.. but will do so and see how the discussion has
progressed) 
but incase you still have the more detailed information on the events
and their interpretations.. then i would appreciate it if you could
pass it on to me too :) 
cheers. 
anand. 
 
anand.balasubramaniam@gmail.com 
http://shadowfax.rediffblogs.com